Good point about the HAL age limit thread. Does anyone think HAL would have backed down and let the young couple cruise if an agent wasn't there to act as an advocate (in other words, the agent pestered the hell out of them and knew which strings to pull)?
Dave, your point is well taken. Even so, I'm really shocked that it got resolved even with an agent advocate. Cruiselines don't typically make exceptions to their written policies, even when its the right thing to do. It sets a precedent for future disputes and opens them up to liability for selective enforcement and discriminaton charges. Its such a shame that common sense is not always the over-riding factor in such issues. Some lawyer now has a csae of an exception to their written policy now to hang over their head if some other young people are denied boarding for scamming the rule instead of an honest oversight by the agent and cruiseline in this case.
Some lawyer now has a csae of an exception to their written policy now to hang over their head if some other young people are denied boarding for scamming the rule instead of an honest oversight by the agent and cruiseline in this case.
Sadly, this will probably come true at some point.
ok someone please help me understand why they have the age rule. I know some of it is because some... I said some, young people get away from home and forget there upbringing. but then again I have seen some more mature people on a cruise that they seemed of have forgotten their upbring. So to me that doesnt seem the reason. These young people can fight in a war, buy drinks, graduate college, die in a war, have children, marry, buy a home, a car, BUT THEY CANT TAKE A CRUISE. strange.
The age requirements have increased over the years with most mainstream lines. Carnival once had a reputation as a party ship. Go on a cruise and you're likely to be surrounded by teens and twenty somethings partying until they puke, loud and obnoxious late into the night or all night keeping other passengers up. Young men on spring break have a tendency to at times let testosterone over-rule judgement and fights or hitting on the staff or other passengers was complained about. Think about any south Florida beach at spring break. That reputation, fair or unfair became a major stereotype for the largest cruiseline in the world and began hurting bookings. The perception still remains today although it is not the case today, based largely on the changes in age requirements, drinking policies and other things implimented to give the staff more control and limit the numbers involved during certain times of the year when problems were unavoidable any other way. When Carnival changed the rules, other lines were fearful that the hooligans would simply change lines and find a new party home. Many lines followed their lead as they do in many ways, think fuel suppliments. There are still a handful of lines where the age requirement is still 18 and above. These are typically lines that for price and other reasons wouldn't attract college students on a fixed budget anyway. Another reason is liability. More mature passengers don't take dares to do stupid things to impress buddies or girlfriends and end up needing emergency evac from the ship for diving off a balcony at port or see how many friends they can squeeze into an elevator. Having someone 25 or over responsible for each cabin or a parent or guardian aboard cut down on the antics and horseplay. Don't be surprised if things continue to change. The changes they've made in age and alcahol being brought aboard have made positive impacts and cut dramatically the accident rate, suicides, missing persons and other serious incident rates in a very short time. They have been good for the industry but like anything else, there are times when enforcing such rules without ability to make exceptions causes problems. This poor honeymoon couple almost got bit by the enforcement of such no exception policies.
Originally posted by TruTrojan: Finally, if I'm cruising in September 08, when should I book? Does it pay off to wait until the last minute to book?
You should try to book as early as possible. Better cabin selections, and the price will be set. You are protected if the price goes up, and can get adjustments if it goes down, until the final payment due date.
Originally posted by TrvlPro: Carnival once had a reputation as a party ship. ....snip.....
Cheers, Neil
You're right on about Carnival. Their reputation has changed somewhat in the past 10 years with improvements in food, entertainment, crowd control but why take a chance has been my thinking. I've heard to many horror stories to take a chance & that is why we don't do Carnival.
on one level i agree with carnival on another level I dont. I think that a person on military leave no matter the age should be allowed to enjoy the relaxing atmosphere, a married couple should be able to enjoy it. I do think that college kids on spring break seem to get the party mood a bit more then the average young person. I just think that if carnival kicked the very wild crowd off at the very next port that would stop the wildness. I feel carnival brought the "wild party" attitude on them self by not enforcing the rules.
Carnival isn't going to do anything to any passengers as long as they keep selling their overpriced drinks. Can you imagine what it would do to the profits if word got out they they were discharging passengers for drinking to much? Besides that if they did start enforcing rules like that if would drive the loud noisy over drinking party people to other lines like Princess or RCL. Why rock the boat?
I had the same opinion and avoided Carnival like the plague. Then in 2002 I finally took my first Carnival cruise. It was great and we've been back with them five times, soon to be six.
A big part of their culture change was not merely cutting out the frat house antics, but actively marketing to families. I believe Carnival was the first of the mainstream lines which went to 21 for drinking age, as well as the first to restrict bookings for those under 21.
And they have given passengers the heave-ho, as well as cut them off at the bar. I've seen the latter. They also rigorously enforce the drinking age - again, I've lost count of how many times I've seen Carnival bar staff card people.
Originally posted by RichC: Carnival isn't going to do anything to any passengers as long as they keep selling their overpriced drinks. Can you imagine what it would do to the profits if word got out they they were discharging passengers for drinking to much? Besides that if they did start enforcing rules like that if would drive the loud noisy over drinking party people to other lines like Princess or RCL. Why rock the boat?
Rich, that's a little unfair from someone who doesn;t cruise Carnival. Their drink pricing is in line with other mainstream lines, in fact I think on most drinks they're well below the average in cost. Sure they make some bank on drinks, they do on any ship, amusement park, ballpark or any other corporation that has a captive audience and share holders that expect profits. Nothing wrong with the value of a cruise and they've been among the best at providing the most bang for the buck in the cruise industry.
Dave went back 10 years but actually the improvements have been steady even in the past 5 years. They've comtinued to release new ships and maintain their older ship as well as anyone. The changes in underage drinking enforcement and age requirement have changed their product for the better. Today you're more likely to get complaints about too many small children on spring break than rowdy teens or young adults. Cutting off those who have had too many of those overpriced drinks, as you call them, is not something any of the lines are shy about today. The changes are working and the staff is well trained on the current rules and enforce them. Are there exceptions? Yep, anytime you have thousands of employees and many who make their living on tips, there will be some who continue to serve someone who should not be served. That's true on ships just like it is at your local watering hole.
I like the changes and the atmosphere that has resulted from them. Cruising continues to grow among every segment of the population so they must be doing something right. Going onboard a ship to spend a week on a binge is becoming rarer and those who want that rather than a relaxing vacation are finding other avenues for their partying. That's just good for everyone.
I have only cruise on carnival so i can not compare it to other cruise. I cruise during school time because I prefer not be on a cruise full of small children. works for me. But rules are rules and carnival really did them for a good reason i guess. but i do see where they should allow exceptions.
and as far as over priced drinks are concerned. have you checked out how much a soft drink cost at a nascar race, profession baseball game. I am not a drinker but the last professional hockey game I went to the man beside me said he paid 7 bucks for a beer.
OK Niel- Perhaps I was a little hasty in criticizing the drink Carnival's drink policy but their reputation precedes them. As you said, the prices of drinks on all cruise lines are high in my opinion & if they depended on people like myself to make profits they would long be out of business. My comments on Carnival come from what I've heard from friends & relatives who have cruised with them I not my own observations. Perhaps some day I'll cruise Carnival & be able to give a first hand experience but until then I'll be sticking to Princes, RCL & Celebrity in that order. At least I know for sure what to expect on these lines.
Rich, all very good choices on your list. Everyone has their preferences. I will encourage you to not rule out Carnival for future cruises based on what others tell you. Its chic for some reason to pick on the big boys in the industry. Some reasons were once well founded from many years ago when they did have some growing pains and their product suffered. Also people who book cruises at the wrong time of year with wrong expectations can be disappointed but that's true of all lines. If you want a relaxing vacation with your significant other and to get away from the kiddos, it would be a bad choice to take Carnival when school is out. If you're under 40 and want a lively ship and night life, HAL to Alaska, the Med or any cruise 14 days or longer would be a poor choice as would any Cunard sailing. When it comes to off season, I defy you to find a better choice for a great time and exceptional value than Carnival on a 7 day or longer sailing. That holds especially true if you're a veteran, 55+ on many sailing, past passenger or fit into any of their promotions with generous savings attached. Next time you shop for a Sept, Oct, early Nov or early Dec sailing, simply compare what you get for your $$$. You may find you can cruise twice for what you're used to spending and just as good a time. I'm not a rah rah Carnival guy, although with my recent posts it might appear that way. I just think, carefully shopped you can find incredible values with them more consistantly than with most other lines including the ones on your list. At least its worth looking at next time you're in the planning phase.
macmom111, It wasn't Carnival that was going to deny boarding to the Newlyweds. It was Holland America Line. Carnival has a Married exception to their age policy.
RichC, The perception that Carnival is a party ship line is way outdated. I find when I cruise in the fall, the crowd mix to be mostly middle age couples, families, and seniors. The last time I saw anything even remotely close to a party was on a spring break cruise, and even that wasn't all that bad. You should give them a try, and draw your own conclusions. Heck, If I lived within driving distance to a Carnival cruise ship port I would be on one of their ships every chance I had. This is Carnival today.
Neil also made a great point about what an exceptional value it is. Especially with all of the discount programs they offer.
Neil/Dwayne- You've almost convinced me but right now we've got 3 Princess cruises on the back burner. Perhaps in the early spring next year. (before spring break) We NEVER cruise when school is out & most of our cruises are 10 days or longer since we have the time.
I don't know if I would say "wearing down" as much as I hate to bypass a terrific deal if there was one. I guess their past reputation has changed for the better. We'll see someday.
RichC We have been on 5 Carnival cruises and 2 RCCI cruises and we have had just as good food and service on Carnival as RCCI. It's ashame that people still want to compare Carnival like it was years ago and how can you caompare Carnival,if you never been on there ship's Mike
