quote:

Originally posted by LisaP:

quote:

Originally posted by CGT:
I think that the best for the ship is for use in a stationary role. I would prefer a big hotel chain to get her, restore her exterior and convert the rest of her in to a 5 star hotel with all the mod cons. The interior of the ship has gone, so this would not affect the integrity of the vessel. I can imagine her in New York fulfilling this role.

CGT, I suggested something similar back on page 2. Now -- how might we work together to make this happen?

Do you know any big hotel chains?

quote:

Originally posted by tncruiseman:
I may be getting facts twisted, but I think I read somewhere that prior to NCL lease/purchase/whatever-it-is arrangement, the owners (Cantor) were considering scrapping her or sinking as an offshore reef. Not defending NCL, but if it weren't for them paying the $1000+ EVERY DAY to have her sit there, she may have already succombed to the torch. We can only wish, wait, and wonder about the future.

Isn't the vessel on the US National Register of Historical Monuments? She would not be scrapped or sunk - she'd go to auction.

My understanding is that SSUS is on the National Register of Historic place. This only recognizes a structure or area as being “worthy of preservation.” It doesn’t place and particular restrictions on the owners. The entire neighborhood I live in is on the National Register, and we only have to abide by our city and county codes. We can build, tear down, and modify as we see fit within building codes.

I’m also interested in the assertion that NCL doesn’t own the vessel outright. Everything I can find, including government registries, list the owners as Maritime Investment Inc., with the same physical address as NCL’s Miami headquarters. I would very much appreciate any documentation you have that indicates otherwise.

The only document that would prove they do not own it outright would be found in a UCC filing search. That would show who any secured creditors would be.

It is rumored on Reuben Goossens' site today, that the SS United States may be on the move soon.
I don't have a good feeling about this.

Here's another hint of a story..

http://blogs.usatoday.com/cruiselog/2007/05/a_comeback_for_.html

Hi All,

Some sad, but not expected news from Reuben Goossens.
He reports today (8/17), that the SS Independence/Oceanic will be towed to the breakers this month.
Reuben also states that his source indicated that the SS United States will be the next to go.

Too bad that NCL America was flawed from the start. NCL should have restored the Big U as a 5-Star Hotel ship in NYC.

The problem with the Big U was the fact that this great vessel fell into the hands of incapable businessmen who didn't have a clue about using the ship's potential, beginning with Richard Hadley to Fred Mayer of commodore cruise line. Otherwise, the ship could been placed in the mothball reserve fleet.

This is a clear example of bad management at its worst without a clear business plan in mind for the ship, after the funds were in order.

I certainly hope that the Big U will not follow the SS Indy's footsteps. It would be a very grave mistake to see the SS United States go the Indian scrapyard. It's bad enough that the ship's interiors were gutted down in Turkey because of the stupid notion that the investors would receive funding to rebuild the ship, when the job could have been done in Germany. It would have left the ship's interiors intact, as well as the equipment.

I hope that someone does finally steps in and buys the vessel. Dispite its condition over the years of neglict, the Big U is too important of a ship to be sent either to the bottom of the ocean floor or to the scrappers.

I feel that Colin Veitch is a very bad businessman, like his predecessors before him. He had the power to convince Star's management about overhauling the SS Norway's engines before the explosion. So when the time came, it would have been sold quickly for their asking price, after they had recoupe the investment cost of overhauling the ship's powertrain.

Too bad they don't see things from that perspective.

quote:

Originally posted by Redlinekid2:
Too bad that NCL America was flawed from the start. NCL should have restored the Big U as a 5-Star Hotel ship in NYC.

The problem with the Big U was the fact that this great vessel fell into the hands of incapable businessmen who didn't have a clue about using the ship's potential, beginning with Richard Hadley to Fred Mayer of commodore cruise line. Otherwise, the ship could been placed in the mothball reserve fleet.

This is a clear example of bad management at its worst without a clear business plan in mind for the ship, after the funds were in order.

I certainly hope that the Big U will not follow the SS Indy's footsteps. It would be a very grave mistake to see the SS United States go the Indian scrapyard. It's bad enough that the ship's interiors were gutted down in Turkey because of the stupid notion that the investors would receive funding to rebuild the ship, when the job could have been done in Germany. It would have left the ship's interiors intact, as well as the equipment.

I hope that someone does finally steps in and buys the vessel. Dispite its condition over the years of neglict, the Big U is too important of a ship to be sent either to the bottom of the ocean floor or to the scrappers.

I feel that Colin Veitch is a very bad businessman, like his predecessors before him. He had the power to convince Star's management about overhauling the SS Norway's engines before the explosion. So when the time came, it would have been sold quickly for their asking price, after they had recoupe the investment cost of overhauling the ship's powertrain.

Too bad they don't see things from that perspective.

I'm not going to argue that previous owners had no clear business plans on what to do with the SS US or not. But, it takes more than plans to get things done. It takes financing. While there have been plenty of owners willing to buy the SS US relatively cheaply over the years, few had the financial resources to complete their vision.
Just check out NCL's SEC filings at
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318742/00009501...-07-001914-index.htm

Specifically read
535199 EX-4.43 SHIPBUILDING CONTRACT FOR HULL NO. C33
or
543158 EX-4.44 SHIPBUILDING CONTRACT FOR HULL NO. D33
and
677867 EX-4.33 SYNDICATE LOAN FACILITY/HULL C33
or
653694 EX-4.34 SYNDICATE LOAN FACILITY/HULL D33

Just read two, not all four. You'll discover NCL has to pay the shipyard 100% of the building cost of a new ship upon delivery. You'll also discover cruise lines get loans to finance new ships, or "large capital projects" such as refurbishing a cruise ship. The banks expect 20% of the loan as a down payment. The banks also expect bi-annual payments on time for a period up to 10 years.
How do you think NCL raises the 20% down payment?
Check out one of these, there's many more supplemental deeds in the list.
105132 EX-4.25 SIXTH SUPPLEMENTAL DEED/NORWEGIAN DAWN
106371 EX-4.26 THIRD SUPPLEMENTAL DEED/NORWEGIAN SUN
219476 EX-4.27 SEVENTH SUPPLEMENTAL DEED/PRIDE OF AMERICA
110822 EX-4.31 THIRD SUPPLEMENTAL DEED/PRIDE OF HAWAI'I

You'll discover NCL refinances existing cruise ships to raise the down payments for capital projects. That's how NCL and other business interests finances expensive capital projects.

My point is it takes more than a businessman's or corporation's plans to accomplish these projects. It takes financial partners, especially banks. The banks not only want the down payment, they also expect collateral to guarantee their loans, and what they consider a sound business plan.

Assuming NCL could raise the down payment to refurbish a ship, be it either the SS US or SS Norway, and has a sound business plan; and if the refurbishment costs more than the value of the ship, is risking another ship as collateral worth the risk?
I believe you'll find refurbishing the damage SS Norway will cost more than the value of the repaired ship. I also believe, although I wish I didn't, that refurbishing the SS US is more expensive than it is worth too. The best things going for the SS US, in comparison to the SS Norway, is that it has had far less use, and since it had been previously stripped, it would be easier to modify to meet 2010 SOLAS rules; therefore it could remain in service long enough to outlast the term of any loan. But it still has that collateral problem.

I'm just very upset that NCL bought these two, last U.S. flag liners with promises to return them to service, and once again, follow the Norway/France to their demise in a foreign scrapyard... makes me ill to the core. Instead of building those hideous, new ships... NCL America should have restored the Norway, the Independence, and the United States as an alternative to these modern, hideous behemoths that claim to be cruise ships.

There is one old liner, the MV Regal Empress of Imperial Majesty Cruise Line that is making an excellent profit and is always filled to capacity. She sails out of Ft. Lauderdale on 2 night cruises and is a very popular ship. NCL America could have taken this road... for the Norway, prior to her boiler explosion, was a still very popular ship.
I'm sure if she had been repaired, she would have continued to make money for NCL. She was a diamond... a jewel. If the Independence and the United States are scrapped... I hope the publicity from this will sink NCL as well.

In regards to the Regal Empress....her days are numbered too. It's already known that she is not going to be able to comply with SOLAS 2010. See her while you can because in two years she'll be making that all too familar trip to the beach.

quote:

If the Independence and the United States are scrapped... I hope the publicity from this will sink NCL as well.

Unfortunately, NCL has received a $1 Billion investment from a private equity group.

They might have quietly gotten rid of the SS Indy, but they will have one hell of a time getting rid of the SS United States. That's the ship where all eyes and ears are on.

Dan,

Although I fear for the well being of the SS United States, one thing that will work in her favor is the PBS documentary that coming out next year. If that doesn't draw attention to her plight, nothing will.
The scrapping of this ship would surely draw large negative publicity for NCL.

I've been trying to persuade the United States society people to let me get on board the ship to make a virtual tour - even if it just means that the ship is recorded for posterity in her current condition but I've had the devil of a job trying to get my ideas over to them. I've been working with the WAVERLEY people on making a tour and so far I have the basic outline on here www.virtualplaces.co.uk. The CD tours would be much more in depth. Ideally I'd love to do the France/Norway and old QM1 but I'd prefer to start with ships which I can get access to but which are under threat.

I'd hope that maybe there was enough interest out there to justify this.

Any thoughts who I can turn to to ask for permissions (its all self funded so I'm not looking for money - just access)

Thanks

Sorry - the specific link (with java needed) is
www.virtualplaces.co.uk

Here's a question maybe someone could answer.....the SS United States is on the register for National Historic Places in America....is that any kind of "muscle" or leverage to keep her from getting scrapped? I know this title mostly applies to buildings and parcels of land which obviously can't be moved but what about the ship? If NCL throws in the towel will the government step in? If anyone knows please advise.

I really hope that this landmark does not go to the breakers...surely there must be some form of protection in place?
Also - any ideas about getting access would really be appreciated.
Cheers

Let's make sure that NCL/Star Cruises doesn't do the the Big U as they did to the SS Norway.

You're very right, redlinekid2! Reuben has set up a contact page for US senators etc.

http://www.ssmaritime.com/SS-United-States-contacts.htm

please let's all help! We don't want to see her end the same way as the Norway! It's not too late for her yet!

http://www.ssmaritime.com/SS-United-States.htm

let's save this beauty