lbcringleader,

the ship was renamed in October, 2005 (!) already. Apparently, Reuben Goossens did not learn about it until a few weeks ago and suggested she had just been renamed. I told him that this was "old news". So actually nothing has changed for the "Independence" since over a year ago.

Of course that doesn't make it more likely that she has a bright future ahead of her, but it certainly doesn't mean that a sale for scrap is imminent, either.

...and recently (in response to Reuben's letters), Colin Veitch has been denying plans to scrap Oceanic/Independence (at least for now)... but is towing the party line of "investigating possible uses for the ship"... same as SSUS.

quote:

Originally posted by SSUS_NJ:
...and recently (in response to Reuben's letters), Colin Veitch has been denying plans to scrap Oceanic/Independence (at least for now)... but is towing the party line of "investigating possible uses for the ship"... same as SSUS.

That's not what Mr. Veitch wrote. Here's the quote,
"Mr. Veitch’s reply was as follows:

“Dear Sir,
Thank you for your inquiry. I do not recall saying she could possibly be scrapped, though I did say that her condition had deteriorated because of the less than satisfactory lay-up when she was first withdrawn from her prior owner’s service. We do have plans for the ship and therefore are not in a position to respond to your request for an asking price.

Sincerely, Colin Veitch”

All he said was that they had plans for the SS Independence, but he never stated what the plans were. He did not deny stating the condition of the ship, he denied stating anything about scraping.

Why do some always change statements, unintentional as it may be, from others to fit their causes?

Perhaps if Colin wasn't vague to the point of near-deception, no one would have to "fill in the blanks".

No matter. Come next monday he's gonna find out what's what. I have a feeling after the Indian Supreme Court tears NCL/Star a new one, they'll be more open to new management and deployment ideas towards their laid-up fleet - lest they lose any more money on ill-fated attempts to "get rid" of their legacy vessels.

i dont think so.
1. if ss norway is ordered off the beach Star or whoeva ownership is transfered 2 will say that she cannot be removed from the beach or some dodgy exuse and if she does get off the beach the same stuff will hapen and shell mysteriously 'sink' or get taken 2 another breakers yard.
2. SS United States will go 2 asia 4 repairs or use as a Casino, Hotel or Ferry or something and tragicly sink or something. If she makes it 2 asia she will remain layed up 4 a while maybe and be sent 2 the breakers yard. the world WILL fall 4 it, they did with the Norway. This time ownership could be made out 2 another company and thell do the dirty work.
3. SS Independence is and has been a background exuse and i feel that she will suffer the same fate or be sold again.

For some reason that I am unable to explain, I am somewhat optimistic about SS United States. Not necessarily as a sea-going ship again, but as a static fixture somewhere.

I noticed that NCL offers lots of cruises from NYC. Suppose, as has been postulated numerous times, SS US is berthed alongside Intrepid, just a few piers away from the ones NCL uses. NCL could then build up the interiors and convert her to a hotel/museum (also not an original thought). The hotel portion can then be used for pre- and post-cruise packages for those sailing with NCL...perhaps even offering check-in... similar to what Carnival does with Queen Mary.

This would also be consistent with NCL's repeated announcements about how they will soon have the youngest fleet in the business. If the ship isn't sailing, I suppose she's not part of the fleet.

Just a few thoughts, for what it's worth...

quote:

Originally posted by Ron Clark:

That's not what Mr. Veitch wrote. Here's the quote,
"Mr. Veitch’s reply was as follows:

“Dear Sir,
Thank you for your inquiry. I do not recall saying she could possibly be scrapped, though I did say that her condition had deteriorated because of the less than satisfactory lay-up when she was first withdrawn from her prior owner’s service. We do have plans for the ship and therefore are not in a position to respond to your request for an asking price.

Sincerely, Colin Veitch”

Why do some always change statements, unintentional as it may be, from others to fit their causes?

Note the words in bold. As I said in my post, Mr. Veitch denied others claims that he had previously said the Independence would be scrapped. I didn't change his statement. Quit splitting hairs, Ron!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by SSUS_NJ:

quote:

Originally posted by Ron Clark:

That's not what Mr. Veitch wrote. Here's the quote,
"Mr. Veitch’s reply was as follows:

“Dear Sir,
Thank you for your inquiry. I do not recall saying she could possibly be scrapped, though I did say that her condition had deteriorated because of the less than satisfactory lay-up when she was first withdrawn from her prior owner’s service. We do have plans for the ship and therefore are not in a position to respond to your request for an asking price.

Sincerely, Colin Veitch”

Why do some always change statements, unintentional as it may be, from others to fit their causes?

Note the words in bold. As I said in my post, Mr. Veitch denied others claims that he had previously said the Independence would be scrapped. I didn't change his statement. Quit splitting hairs, Ron!!!!!

Here's what you wrote again:

...and recently (in response to Reuben's letters), Colin Veitch has been denying plans to scrap Oceanic/Independence (at least for now)... but is towing the party line of "investigating possible uses for the ship"... same as SSUS.

He didn't deny plans to scap the Independence, he denied ever saying so. There is a difference between dening something, and denying he never said something. Also, phrases like

"towing the party line"

gave me the impression you were exaggerating what he said. Sorry if I over reacted, but that was the impression I got.

quote:

Originally posted by LisaP:
For some reason that I am unable to explain, I am somewhat optimistic about SS United States. Not necessarily as a sea-going ship again, but as a static fixture somewhere.

I noticed that NCL offers lots of cruises from NYC. Suppose, as has been postulated numerous times, SS US is berthed alongside Intrepid, just a few piers away from the ones NCL uses. NCL could then build up the interiors and convert her to a hotel/museum (also not an original thought). The hotel portion can then be used for pre- and post-cruise packages for those sailing with NCL...perhaps even offering check-in... similar to what Carnival does with Queen Mary.

This would also be consistent with NCL's repeated announcements about how they will soon have the youngest fleet in the business. If the ship isn't sailing, I suppose she's not part of the fleet.

Just a few thoughts, for what it's worth...

You might be correct, you might be wrong. I don't know. But since we all have opinions, here's mine.

I believe it will never become a hotel in New York. New York is full of hotels, and the last thing New York needs is another hotel. The Queen Mary works in Long Beach because at the time of her conversion Long Beach had a shortage of hotel rooms. Long Beach needed more hotel rooms for their Convention Center, which the Queen Mary sits next door to.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but one has to be realistic. For a SSUS conversion into a hotel to work, it must be placed at a locale that will be short of hotel rooms for a period of time. Rumors have been around for decades that the SSUS will be converted into a hotel. Nothing has come from them yet.

I believe the best option is to refurbish the SSUS as a cruise ship, and placing it back into service, where it could cruise directly between American cities without having to visit a nearby foreign port. New York City to Florida and back, without visiting the Bahamas is one possible route. Another possible route is up and down the West Coast, from Los Angeles to Seattle with stops in San Francisco and Portland. Golly, the SSUS at top speed would probably beat Amtrak on both coasts, and provide far better accommodations, giving travelers who do not wish to fly everywhere a better experience.

Ron Clark, u r completely right. im wid u on that idea. lets raise support by emailing people

With the Meditteranean Sea itineraries becoming more and more popular, with SSUS' speed, nothing would be better than a 12-14 day round-trip Meditteranean cruise from New York - hitting all of the ports that RCCL, Carnival, Princess, etc. During the "off season" she could then cruise from California to Hawaii round-trip. Great and popular destinations without having to be burdened with awkward and expensive trans-atlantic/pacific flights. What scenario could be better?

Love that idea, tncruiseman... I'd sign on for a couple of those cruises!!

I agree. It's approximately 2300 miles from San Francisco to Hilo.
The SSUS at 30 knots, its normal cruising speed, could travel that distance in 67 hours, slightly less than three days. If the SSUS left San Francisco Sunday night at 6 pm, it could be in Hilo by 1 pm Wednesday afternoon. Tack on NCL's common 7 day itineary to that, it could be in Honolulu as the last stop for those wishing to fly back Thursday morning a week later, for a total of 10 days. For those sailing back, it could be back in San Francisco Monday morning, for a grand total of 14 days.
You could market the same cruise either way.
Sail both ways, or just one way and fly the other. That's something you couldn't do with a cruise ship with an International Flag. They would have to visit a remote foreign port (Fanning Island being the closest) to not have to do a round trip cruise. Cruise ships that do one way Hawaiian cruises start or end their itineraries from Mexico or Canada, not from a US port. Possible money earning itineraries exist with a true American flag ship.

NCL needs to see that itinerary! Count me in coach! A Meditteranean itinerary could probably be just as successful too. I know many that are wanting to cruise Europe, but are hesitant because of the transatlantic flights since 9/11. Take out the logistical planning for a Med cruise and you've hit a home run!

While we are solving the USSUS dilemna, lets add one final touch to the program - allow anyone sailing on the ship to be able to deduct the entire cost of the cruise automatically on their taxes, just like a donation to a foundation is now deductible. Most ships are flagged outside the US for tax reasons...lets give some reasons to offset that!

Hi Ron,
Based on the actions made to the SS Norway and the SS Independence by NCL/Star Cruises, it is very doubtful that they will spend the kind of money that's needed to make the Big U sail again. In fact, the opportunity for that has passed when the ship's fittings and equipment was sold at auction in 1984.

Had Mr. Hadley simply given the Big U a new paint job and upgraded its safty requirements, I believe that the ship would be sailing today. Although, there would have been many changes to her, both inside and outside, like the SS Norway.

If NCL decides to put the Big U into service again, the ship's powertrain would be gutted down to make way for a new disel plant. The one element that has kept the ship with us today would be lost forever. The ship's Naval powerplant was the one thing that makes this ship so special. The Cold War relic. No; I no longer have faith the NCL will ever refit the Big U.

The only option I see for the ship is to make it into a museum/hotel in New York City.

quote:

Originally posted by MV Augustus:
Hi Ron,
Based on the actions made to the SS Norway and the SS Independence by NCL/Star Cruises, it is very doubtful that they will spend the kind of money that's needed to make the Big U sail again. In fact, the opportunity for that has passed when the ship's fittings and equipment was sold at auction in 1984.

Had Mr. Hadley simply given the Big U a new paint job and upgraded its safty requirements, I believe that the ship would be sailing today. Although, there would have been many changes to her, both inside and outside, like the SS Norway.

If NCL decides to put the Big U into service again, the ship's powertrain would be gutted down to make way for a new disel plant. The one element that has kept the ship with us today would be lost forever. The ship's Naval powerplant was the one thing that makes this ship so special. The Cold War relic. No; I no longer have faith the NCL will ever refit the Big U.

The only option I see for the ship is to make it into a museum/hotel in New York City.

NYC doesn't have a shortage of hotel rooms, and it already has the USS Intrepid as a museum, I don't believe NYC needs or wants the SSUS. It barely finds the financial resources to care for the Intrepid, I don't see them finding extra finances to care for the SSUS too.

Someone suggested using the SSUS in New Orleans as a hotel/casino. At least casino's should create enough profits to pay for the ship's upkeep. However, I believe a river barge would be cheaper to maintain, creating more profits for the casino's investors. Then again, the SSUS name might attract more gamblers. But at least that's a viable possibility.

Yes, the existing steam propulsion on the SSUS is a fuel guzzler, which is why many suggest replacing it with diesel electric or gas turbines. But these conversions aren't cheap, and raising the costs significantly for refurbishment, possibly too high.

I still believe the existing steam propulsion could be retained, which reduces the refurbishment price significantly. If placed on itineraries that take advantage of both its speed and American flag, I believe it could ask and get higher fares, high enough to pay for its fuel consumption bills.

For example, the Dawn leaves NYC Sunday afternoon at 4 pm and arrives at Cape Canaveral Tuesday morning at 10 am. The distance is approximately 1,000 miles, the Dawn averages 24 mph or 21 knots for this trip, using 42 hours. The SSUS, with its existing steam propulsion, at its cruising speed of 30 knots or 34.5 mph, could reach Cape Canaveral at 9 pm Monday night, using 29 hours. It could travel the extra approximately 200 miles to Miami in 6 hours. So, instead of sailing to Port Canaveral it could reach Miami from New York, and arrive in Miami at 3 am Tuesday morning. Move to Port Canaveral in 6 hours overnight, spend Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, and depart Cape Canaveral at midnight, and still get back to New York by Sunday morning at 5 am.
Whether it spends one day or two days in Miami, it still could spend two to three days at Cape Canaveral. The Florida cruises from New York are popular, especially those that stop near Orlando. No other cruise ship can get you that many days at Cape Canaveral from New York in just one week. Wouldn't an extra day or two in Cape Canaveral be worth more?

Ron, I beg to differ with your assessment that I am not being realistic. While I would love to see her sailing again, it will take a lot to get her there -- both work-wise and $-wise.

On to a couple of other issues. As one who travels to NYC often for both business and pleasure, I know firsthand that there certainly are plenty of times during which hotel rooms are scarce. But, I still think she has a more promising future as a museum of U.S. ocean liner history (whereas Intrepid is a warship -- big difference -- and yes, I've visited). I envision several rooms paying tribute to some of this country's great ocean liners, such as America, Constitution, and of course, SS United States. Perhaps even the growth of the modern cruise industry in the U.S., to draw in those who aren't the liner aficionados we are.

NYC is also in the process of creating a huge park and walkway along the Hudson River. I've seen this in various stages as I travel there a great deal, and it's coming along nicely. SS United States -- once the pride of our country -- would be a wonderful attraction, alongside a renovated USS Intrepid.

Again, I'd love to see her sail again, and I'd be onboard in an instant. It's just that I believe there are too many obstacles to make this happen and to sustain it long-term.

quote:

Originally posted by LisaP:
Ron, I beg to differ with your assessment that I am not being realistic. While I would love to see her sailing again, it will take a lot to get her there -- both work-wise and $-wise.

On to a couple of other issues. As one who travels to NYC often for both business and pleasure, I know firsthand that there certainly are plenty of times during which hotel rooms are scarce. But, I still think she has a more promising future as a museum of U.S. ocean liner history (whereas Intrepid is a warship -- big difference -- and yes, I've visited). I envision several rooms paying tribute to some of this country's great ocean liners, such as America, Constitution, and of course, SS United States. Perhaps even the growth of the modern cruise industry in the U.S., to draw in those who aren't the liner aficionados we are.

NYC is also in the process of creating a huge park and walkway along the Hudson River. I've seen this in various stages as I travel there a great deal, and it's coming along nicely. SS United States -- once the pride of our country -- would be a wonderful attraction, alongside a renovated USS Intrepid.

Again, I'd love to see her sail again, and I'd be onboard in an instant. It's just that I believe there are too many obstacles to make this happen and to sustain it long-term.

I agree, it will cost hundreds of million of dollars to refurbish the SSUS. NCL's new Pearl and Gem cost approximately $500 million to build, the new F3 class ships NCL has ordered will cost over $900 million to build. Tack another 50% on top of those costs to build a new ship at similar sizes in America. At some point, I believe someone is going to realize that even with a $400 million refurbishment costs, the SSUS could be profitable sailing on exclusive American port itineraries. That's its only chance. Otherwise, it too will be heading for a scrap yard.
Just about all major American ports already have a ship consuming valuable private and public financial resources as museums.

Boston MA> USS Massachuettes, Kennedy, and Salem.
Groton, CT > USS Nautilus
New York NY > USS Intrepid
Camden NJ > USS New Jersey
Philadelphia PA > USS Olympia
Norfolk VA > USS Monitor and USS Wisconsin
Wilimington NC > USS North Carolina
Charleston SC > USS Yorktown
Miami > ?
Mobil AL > USS Alabama
New Orleans > ?
Houston > USS Texas
Corpus Christi > USS Lexington
San Diego > USS Midway
Los Angeles > Queen Mary
Alameda CA > USS Hornet
Portland > ?
Seattle > ?
Honolulu > USS Missouri

Here's my point, there's only four cities with sufficient population located on our coasts large enough to support any long term restoration efforts that doesn't already have financial resources tied up on other ships.
Only New York City and Norfolk have historic ties with the SSUS. NYC already barely affords the upkeep on the USS Intrepid. Norfolk is attempting to raise funds to save the USS Wisconsin, and has the delicate duty to preserve what's left of the USS Monitor (civil war ship of significant history)). Of the four ports large enough without a ship to care for that could possibly make restoring the SSUS profitable are New Orleans, and that was before last year's hurricane and Miami. New Orleans furbishing the SSUS into a casino is possible, but I still think a casino operator could lower initial costs significantly simply by using a river barge as the base for the casino. That leaves Miami, which has at least a dozen cruise ships arriving and departing weekly. Does it really need a maritime museum celebrating ocean liners?

I still think the only way to preserve the SSUS is for someone to place it back into service as a cruise ship. It's easy to state NYC could afford another restoration effort, but the fact remains it is barely taking care of the USS Intrepid. By the way, they finally got it unstuck and to the shipyard this week, it's first dry dock in 25 years, and which will cost $60 million.
Ships are large holes in water people throw money into.

Ron,
You must realize that when NCL supposely claimed to have owned the SS United States, they wanted to replace the entire engineroom with a new disel plant, which would wipe out the ship's history. So far, they haven't done anything to the Big U. They never will.

You comparing the Big U to a warship, which it's not. If the ship can be refurblished into a 5-Star Hotel and Museum in NYC, It'll do very well because the hotel portion of the ship would generate revenue, as well as a small maritime/hotel/cullunary training academy onboard.

As you might have seen, most of the steamships are going to the scrapyard, because its much cheaper to build a new ship at the moment than to maintain an old one, thanks in part to the easy access to new fiancing(loans). But I have a feeling that all the building of new ships that we've seen will slowly come to an end because it'll cause an over stuation in the market, and some of the cruise companies will have a lot of debt that they can't pay off on time. Because they will be too many ships going after the same type of passengers, their profit margins will decline or stagnate.