travel agent??? steering away cruisers from ncl,hahahaha that sounds about right..its known as the bottom of the barrel cruise line....and everyday since i booked my carnival cruise for sept out of new york i watch the prices on vacations to go .com and if u look they keep dropping the ncl prices..alot..guess that says something..even if ncl took back the norway they are to far gone in my oppinion...waiting for some other company to buy them out.. if the prices keep dropping they wont be able to pay for all those new ships they just boughtthey realy are the bottom now.. they know they cant take norway back cause shes stripped out and neglected so bad now..and those indians..who knows what they have done being on her now for months ncl f__cked up..but long before norway..they dont maintain there ships and they dont have the good food quality ..the only reason i booked with them anyways was to take a cheap gettaway on a classic beauty.. now that shes gone..ill never sail them again, like many others. and as for ron clark...def. ncl f__ck him too . some one should try to ban him from the chat or just ignore him..damn ncl reps.they have no buissnes being on here.. ncl is long beyond any help ron clark can give them infact they all prob. will be looking for jobs soon. i wouldnt be suprised if he was colin v himself.. snooping around. again ..the price drops say it all its the begining of the end for ncl-star.. on another chat site about norway (cruise mate) there was a guy who worked for ncl that seemed to know alot of inside info on the norway..(american pride.. wish he was here on this site..anyone know him? he seemed to provide accurate info concerning norway and seemed to be a fan of her. bet he could of provided some info on the upkeep of the boilers..i think he was part of the pride of america crew staying on the norway at the time they were using it as a hotel / training ship.. seemed to be a manager or something and said he was crew on the norway at the time of the explosion.. as for germeny taking the ship back..they wont they dont care and if they did ncl prob would never give them any buissness again and they need the work.. i would assume. i said it once and ill say it again even being on her when she blew , that dont scare me any if she were to be brought back by some other company in any way i would be there again ..just to get a glimpse of the grand ol girl.. oh and jan-olav storli i havent forgot about the pics of the last cruise..just need a little time cause i didnt have a digital camera at the time so it will take me some time as im busy with the vacation season

Holy smokescreens Batman! Ron Clark is a travel agent?!? I can already see that page #66 here will be dedicated to this amazing topic.

'Are you an NCL representative? No. But I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.'

come on now realy.. is that realy his site??? thats a real comon name now...ron clark..i think hes ncl

quote:

if the prices keep dropping they wont be able to pay for all those new ships they just bought

Hey badrideboy - you aren't kidding!! I'm getting flooded with e-mails from the various online cruise agents that I've worked with advertising "once in a lifetime deals" on NCLA in particular. I could go in on a "Pride barge" for ~$600 (85% reduction)!! Soon they'll be PAYING people to sail NCLA!

And yeah... "once in a lifetime" ... maybe 'cause NCL/NCLA aren't going to be around much longer????

The biggest thing that gives me pause in that case is the fate of the SSUS. If NCL/Star go down the toilet, I just hope they don't flush the SSUS in the process.

Hi Folks,

I've been following this forum for quite a while hoping that another piece of engineering history would win a reprieve.

I've worked in the travel industry at one of the largest pan european companies for more years than I care to remember and it is a very fickle beast at the best of times.

There seems to be a whole lot of criticsm of Ron for his comments regardig NCL. His comments on boiler maintenance are valid and rightly we do not know the cause of the boiler explosion so to that end all comments are purely speculative opinion. For all we know all the boilers may have been tubed and some other fault caused the accident likewise it could have been shoddy maintenance.

Given the highly litigeous nature of the US surely when the NTSB / health and safety guys looked into the explosion there would have been a cause identified and thus action taken where needed.

Given the way travel changes I dare say there was some interest in repairing Norway. But times and faces change not necessarily at the top but certainly the policy makers. So the kind of things that the bean counters will look at would be OK we have a cheques from the insurers is it better to repair Norway or use the money against a new ship or another refurbishment. I would be inclined to say that market factors in the cruise industry have changed dramatically over the last few years and the people who are crusing are much younger than they used to be with the target demographic for most operators being the 20 - 35 bracket. With Norway not having the facilities demanded such as balconies larger state rooms etc the odds start to stack up. That's without factoring in powerplant efficiency, reliability and manoeuvrability.

Most operators run at a very tight margin hence why just about everyone is cutting comission to the bone with some stock being sold at loss so we actually pay for pax to go on holiday to save a total loss. So minimising costs and maximising butts on seats is now the name of the game and history is left by the wayside.

British Airways in the UK are just scrapping all the classic aircraft in their museum. Modern business has no time for past glories.

While I totally disagree with NCL's stewardship of the Norway over the last couple of years I can see why an about face would happen.

So lets have a balanced discussion without getting personal, freedom of speech means we all have a right to our opinion whether you agree or not.

Cheers,

Mike

P.s. I'm putting on my flame retardant strides now!!!

Hey guys - I told you a while back - way back - that the domino effect was going to happen sooner or later when travel agents talk clients out of going on NCL/NCLA. My agent has been sending het clients to this very website as well as the ssmaritime website. Let's see how much debt NCL/Star Cruises can build up this year before they crash to the bottom of the ocean.

quote:

Originally posted by badrideboy:
come on now realy.. is that realy his site??? thats a real comon name now...ron clark..i think hes ncl

I imagine there is very little chance of that site belonging to OUR Ron Clark. But I thought it was a pretty funny coincidence.

I'd love to see NCL and NCLA go down the toilet and take their 3 new big boxes with them. But I agree, that may be lethal to ALL of their "classic" ships as well.

Not related...Just fun

Google Earth

Oceanic (SS Independance) - 38 06 03.90 n 112 16 07.67 w
SS United States - 39 55 06.42 n 75 08 11.37 w
SS Norway - 2 49 23.99 n 101 13 33.23 e
Queen Mary 1 - 33 45 10.00 n 118 11 23.02 w
SS America - 28 20 46.03 n 14 10 49.27 w
SS Aquarama - 42 50 21.01 n 78 51 40.01 w
RMS Titanic - 41 43 32.00 n 49 56 49.00 w
SS Great Britain - 51 26 57.02 n 2 36 30.03 w
MV Hikawa Maru ? - 35 26 47.76 n 139 39 04.09 e

Needed the break!!!!!!!!

Also just for fun, check out this sight: http://www.ncl.hospitalityjobs.hcareers.com/ Under history, M/S Sunward is mentioned as the ship that started NCL but nowhere does it mention SS Norway as being the ship that made NCL. Next check out "Our company Values" especially under Team Players. Integrity? Fairness? Honesty? Well I guess that only applies to employees!

quote:

Originally posted by Remarc:
Not related...Just fun

Google Earth

Oceanic (SS Independance) - 38 06 05.58 n 112 16 07.67 w

Needed the break!!!!!!!!

Aloha, Remarc !Great job, I enjoyed the virtual tour of ships. I made a slight adjustment for INDY above, and
here's a cruise ship at Aloha Tower in Hawai'i
21 18 32.69 N 157 52 0.63 w

Hello everybody,

the German Greens have launched yet another initiative in which they demand that Germany calls the "Blue Lady" back to Bremerhaven. The spokesman for shipping and harbors of the party's fraction in the Bundestag, Rainder Steenblock, demanded yesterday that the responsible authorities in the State of Bremen which allowed the ship's export shall revoke the permission in which case the ship would have to be returned to Germany.

quote:

Originally posted by Watson Island Norway Fan:

quote:

Originally posted by Remarc:
Not related...Just fun

Google Earth

Oceanic (SS Independance) - 38 06 05.58 n 112 16 07.67 w

Needed the break!!!!!!!!

Aloha, Remarc !Great job, I enjoyed the virtual tour of ships. I made a slight adjustment for INDY above, and
here's a cruise ship at Aloha Tower in Hawai'i
21 18 32.69 N 157 52 0.63 w

Maybe I'm doing it wrong but both those cooridnates place the Oceanic in southern Utah...

Just guessing with Google Maps (I don't have G. Earth on this computer),

37 45 50.00 n 122 23 02.57 w

is closer to where I last saw her, in San Francisco...

quote:

Originally posted by PPP:

quote:

Originally posted by Watson Island Norway Fan:

quote:

Originally posted by Remarc:
Not related...Just fun

Google Earth

Oceanic (SS Independance) - 38 06 05.58 n 112 16 07.67 w

Needed the break!!!!!!!!

Aloha, Remarc !Great job, I enjoyed the virtual tour of ships. I made a slight adjustment for INDY above, and
here's a cruise ship at Aloha Tower in Hawai'i
21 18 32.69 N 157 52 0.63 w

Maybe I'm doing it wrong but both those cooridnates place the Oceanic in southern Utah...

Just guessing with Google Maps (I don't have G. Earth on this computer),

37 45 50.00 n 122 23 02.57 w

is closer to where I last saw her, in San Francisco...

OK,

38 06 05.58 n 122 16 07.67 w (122 w)

Places her at Mare Island, I'll go with that, but the last I saw her she was in SF.

quote:

Originally posted by PPP:

Maybe I'm doing it wrong but both those cooridnates place the Oceanic in southern Utah...

And I thought Alang was a long haul across the beach for the Norway!

Hi Mikey,

I don't know where you heard that British Airways are scrapping all their classic aircraft in museums, seems pretty unlikely, unless you're confusing it with the retirement of Concorde 3 years ago. All models of Concorde except for one that was damaged by a hard landing in the 1980's and of course the one that hit runway debris off another plane on takeoff, have all been flown or shipped to museums. We have a vibrant network of museums across the country here and people flock from all over to visit examples of all tyoes of aircraft built and flown here over the last century. Other than the normal decommissioning and scrapping of aircraft at their End of Life (30-40 years) I have heard no incident of BA wanting to dispose of its vintage and exhibition stock of aircraft. Please check your sources.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeyRR:
Hi Folks,

I've been following this forum for quite a while hoping that another piece of engineering history would win a reprieve.

I've worked in the travel industry at one of the largest pan european companies for more years than I care to remember and it is a very fickle beast at the best of times.

There seems to be a whole lot of criticsm of Ron for his comments regardig NCL. His comments on boiler maintenance are valid and rightly we do not know the cause of the boiler explosion so to that end all comments are purely speculative opinion. For all we know all the boilers may have been tubed and some other fault caused the accident likewise it could have been shoddy maintenance.

Given the highly litigeous nature of the US surely when the NTSB / health and safety guys looked into the explosion there would have been a cause identified and thus action taken where needed.

Given the way travel changes I dare say there was some interest in repairing Norway. But times and faces change not necessarily at the top but certainly the policy makers. So the kind of things that the bean counters will look at would be OK we have a cheques from the insurers is it better to repair Norway or use the money against a new ship or another refurbishment. I would be inclined to say that market factors in the cruise industry have changed dramatically over the last few years and the people who are crusing are much younger than they used to be with the target demographic for most operators being the 20 - 35 bracket. With Norway not having the facilities demanded such as balconies larger state rooms etc the odds start to stack up. That's without factoring in powerplant efficiency, reliability and manoeuvrability.

Most operators run at a very tight margin hence why just about everyone is cutting comission to the bone with some stock being sold at loss so we actually pay for pax to go on holiday to save a total loss. So minimising costs and maximising butts on seats is now the name of the game and history is left by the wayside.

British Airways in the UK are just scrapping all the classic aircraft in their museum. Modern business has no time for past glories.

While I totally disagree with NCL's stewardship of the Norway over the last couple of years I can see why an about face would happen.

So lets have a balanced discussion without getting personal, freedom of speech means we all have a right to our opinion whether you agree or not.

Cheers,

Mike

P.s. I'm putting on my flame retardant strides now!!!

Hey my mistake, Yes Indi is at 38 06 05.58 n 122 16 07.67 w. I guess maybe I was thinking that if I could get Indi bearthed in Utah, Then maybe the fine folks in Dubai could get Norway a few miles inland? But then again my theory would also prove that the canibals could get her a few hundred feet onto a beach! Sure hope my theory is wrong.

Raoul,
In am attempt to apply international pressure, who or where in Germany could be e-mailed by all those concerned?

Originally posted by Phil in england:
Hi Mikey,

I don't know where you heard that British Airways are scrapping all their classic aircraft in museums, seems pretty unlikely, unless you're confusing it with the retirement of Concorde 3 years ago. All models of Concorde except for one that was damaged by a hard landing in the 1980's and of course the one that hit runway debris off another plane on takeoff, have all been flown or shipped to museums. We have a vibrant network of museums across the country here and people flock from all over to visit examples of all tyoes of aircraft built and flown here over the last century. Other than the normal decommissioning and scrapping of aircraft at their End of Life (30-40 years) I have heard no incident of BA wanting to dispose of its vintage and exhibition stock of aircraft. Please check your sources.


hi everyone ive been following the norway story since page 3 and i think what you are doing is abmirable in the trying to save such a historic ship. if only we had this internet thing about 40 years ago, ppl like you all could have saved more.

just a quick note on the BA scrapping airliners thread.i am in the royal air force and i was at cosford recently where they have a big aerospace museum and where ba had "given" planes about 20 years ago , well it turns out BA still own them and there is a 707 that is getting dismantelled at cosford and sold to a museum in glasgow, a vc 10 that is having its cockpit removed and sent to another musuem and the rest of that aircraft is to be scrapped and the fate of the other 2 are uncertain but from what i can gather BA doesnt was to pay for there upkeep anymore. Shame on them.

p.s. nice to be here

Like many others i've been following this forum for a long time always looking in for news. The wealth of information that constantly emerges is fascinating. To me the Norway is the most beautiful ship ever built, whichever way you look at her she has so much character and caught my attention when i was a small boy. I sincerely hope she lives on, I would definately travel to see her, I believe in her and it aint over 'till......well, you know.... This subject of the BA planes has a slight relevance here, Big,well known names not looking after or even keeping their heritage through cost cuts, Health and safty issues etc. It seems that in future generations there wil be a huge void where you wont be able to show your children anything from times past, every thing being scrapped and that's not right. It will be realised, but not before it's too late...Incidently Phil in England the BA planes scrapped at cosford are; British Airtours Boeing 707-436, the only conway powered example in the Uk with front section only saved. The only complete Trident 1 left, cockpit section only saved. The last standard vc10 built for boac and the only standard left in airliner configuration (Duxford has a super vc10), will be scrapped any day now, with the front section only being saved.....sad days indeed. The Norway is still with us.. keep the faith.

Hi,

i'm glad someone else had the sense to post regarding BA and museums. I suggest you review any reputed aviation journal and you'll find that BA have been shall we say stopping short of their maintenance commitment of their fleet at Cosford which has now come to head where oddly enough the rarest members of the fleet have been or are due to be scrapped. Lets not be naive here history is wonderful thing but it doesn't make you money...morally wrong though it is it's an unfortunate fact of life these days.

Still not sure then go to...

www.airliners.net

and search for either g-arvm, g-arph or g-apfj all of which were pretty much unique and with exception of G-arvm have now been scrapped.

It underlines that a modern business model is survival and not heritage. If we need examples lets look at Canberra she did not pass into the ownership of the scrappers until such time as it was not feasible to rebuild her, none of the production Concordes in museums have engines.

Most likely NCl stuck Norway in Germany until the insurance paid out when they did she was not in their business model and was not particulary saleable in europe due to solas. They moved her to Kalang where an Asian group may buy her as spares or repair. When that didn't pan out they clearly decided to cut their losses and sell her for scrap with the clause in place to prevent someone viewing her as spares or repair buying her for the lesser scrap value.

Nothing new or surprising there just old fashioned business.

What is required is a more national level protection of our industrial heritage, this has started in the UK but I fear may be too late developing globally for SS US, SS Norway and the Indy.

Mike