Dubai is turning into a popular transport hub and since I do a fair amount of air travel, the chances are that I'll fly somewhere via Dubai sooner or later.

If the France were to be there, I might think about extending such a trip with a layover of one or two nights, certainly.

So much easier to get to Dubai from here in Sydney - non stop ! I would go tomorrow if the project comes off... stop off to/from England !

One Step Closer to the Grave...

Uh, Oh... according to these two links, the official report of the inspection has been submitted today to the Supreme Court:

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/002200607141867.htm

http://www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?aid=309042&sid=REG&ssid=
(Careful- pop-ups on this one)

Seems frighteningly silent from Reuben Goosens and the Dubai project. I'm feeling sad.

That is impossibly quick - ship completely inspected and report submitted in 7 days.It took me 3 cruises to fully know my way around and that was just the passenger areas. Can only be a token effort. What is the desperate hurry?
I can't help thinking that the Dubai project is faltering. Maybe it's the Star/NCL clause that is the problem. They are such a nice company.

I couldn't agree more with Aussie cruiser Emirates flys out of Melbourne about three times a week on its way to Europe with a stop off at Dubai. I would be more than happy to extend my stay at Dubai to stay at the hotel SS FRANCE. I suppose no news is good news for the moment until we know the S.C. verdict. As for Reuben he still assures us the negotiations are still on going. As for NCL/STAR being a nice company "YEAH RIGHT"

Pardon my cynicism but I have a feeling the SC decision -- to find for the shipbreakers -- is predictable, and that the, uh, inspection was a "show" to deflect criticism from what was a foregone conclusion.

I would venture a guess that the court is the best that money can buy.

quote:

Originally posted by Ron Clark:

quote:

It very sad that people today just don't care anymore about history it's very important that the S.S. Norway is saved because she is the last ship to be built in France and there is nothing like her.

While I'll agree there's no other ship like her, I'll disagree that she was the last ship built in France.

Wasn't the Queen Mary 2 built in France?
QM2 was built by Chantiers de l'Atlantique in Saint-Nazaire, France.

Isn't MSC also building ships in France today?

MSC Musica 65,000 1,600 Chantiers de l'Atlantique $250 million June 2006

MSC Orchestra 65,000 1,600 Chantiers de l'Atlantique $250 million Spring 2007

MSC Fantasia 133,500 3,887 Chantiers de l'Atlantique $550 million Spring 2008

MSC Serenata 133,500 3,887 Chantiers de l'Atlantique $550 million Spring 2009

Looks like France will be busy building large ships until at least 2009.

Aloso all of the Sorvegien and Vision class ships were built in france i think and they were deffently built after 1961.

This can't be good...Reuben Goosens updated the front page of ssmaritime website with this quote: Updated today - "Star Cruises opposes the sale to Project Dubai"... We need to get down to serious business and really put pressure on the folks to make our goal/dream come true!! It ain't over til the fat lady sings.

Clarification: what I meant in my last post is that I fully expect the SC to find in favor of the vultures, and however unfortunate, the decision should be a surprise to no one.

quote:

Originally posted by Remarc:
Ron, In your post you mention the honesty of NCL and Star. I do find this rather odd since reading an article called "Promises made by NCL/Star Cruises about … SS Norway, SS United States and SS Independence" at http://www.ssmaritime.com/newsupdates2.htm This article is about 3/4 down the page. It does jive with all the info I have seen so far. Thanks

Here's your paragraph,
From the moment of the boiler explosion, Star Cruises/NCL (Norwegian Cruise Line) has misled the public regarding their intentions for the Norway. NCL CEO, Colin Veitch stated “She will be back (in the USA) in October, 2003.” Then when this did not eventuate came the next promise, that it was going take a little longer, and she would now return Spring, 2004."

Then there was a an another announcement, that NCL could not bring her back into service, but that she would head for Malaysia where she would be operated by Star Cruises. Then the news came that Star Cruises were not going operate her, but they promised that she was not going to be sold for scrap, and that was a Star Cruises promise.

Notice the lack of dates given to the quotes by Mr. Veitch, and the lack of quotes later attributed to Star/NCL.

My point is, if you look at the quotes, that you can't say NCL was lying when they were made.
Let's review the time line again:

May 25, 2003 - Boiler Explosion in Miami.
June 27, 2003 - Departed Miami under tow to Bremerhaven.
September 23, 2003 - Arrived in Bremerhaven.
March 23, 2004 - "The France will never sail again." and the SS Norway was transfered to Star Cruises; about the same time the Spirt, ex Leo, transfered to NCL.
May 23, 2005 - Left Bremerhaven for Port Klang.
August 10, 2005 - Arrived in Port Klang.
December 2005 - First sold for scrap, later rescinded.
April 24, 2006 - India news media reports SS Norway sold again.
? 2006 - SS Norway arrives in Fujairah, UAE.
June 14, 2006 - SS Norway departs Fujairah.
June 28, 2006 - SS Norway anchored off the Indian coast awaiting government inspection.
July 2006 - Inpections performed and written report submitted to India's Supreme Court.

Let's assume that the first quote attributed to Mr. Veitch occured around the SS Norway's departure from Miami to the Lloydwerft's shipyard in Bremerhaven. I would say NCL didn't have a clue at that time what the insurance settlement, what the total repair bill, and how long the lead time for new boilers would be.
The second quote probably occured after he learned what the lead time for new boilers were, but before the insurance settlement.

We do know that March 2004, after the insurance settlement, Mr. Veitch stated, "The France will never sail again."

We also know that the Jewel wasn't completed until a year later. The interview didn't occur until both were aboard the Jewel. We weren't told in the interview when the decision was made to not repair the SS Norway.

I suggest the reason why news, or the truth, was revealed piecemeal is because decisions were made in a piecemeal manner.

Ron, Whatever!!!

Raoul,curious, who actually owns NCL? I found some articles from 2000 on Marinelog. http://www.marinelog.com/DOCS/MMFeb02.html http://www.marinelog.com/DOCS/MMFeb04.html Did this deal go through?

Latest on SS Maritime dated the 16th July. Things still look positive.

http://www.ssmaritime.com/newsupdates2.htm

Remarc,

Carnival eventually pulled out of the deal.

Thanks Raoul.

Good morning - this was in the San Antonio Express News:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/business/stories/MYSA071606...raveyard.5196bd.html

They didn't mention the SS Norway/France, though.

quote:

Originally posted by Remarc:
Ron, Whatever!!!

Raoul, curious, who actually owns NCL? Did this deal go through?

I believe I had posted NCL's ownership fight in the past. Briefly, NCL was up for sale in the late 1990s. Star Cruises bought a 51% stake in NCL around 2000. Then NCL changed some bonds into stock, dropping Star Cruises ownership below 50%. Carnival Corporation went mad buying the rest of the NCL stock. A deal was made, in which Carnival and Star Cruises would join together to operate NCL. Then Carnival dropped out of the deal, and Star Cruises bought all of Carnival's NCL stock.

NCL today is owned by Star Cruises, which is a part of the Gentling Group (Genting Berhad).
http://www.genting.com/index.htm
Over 41% of the Gentling Group is owned by the Tan Sri Lim Goh Tong family. It's listed on both the Malaysia and Hong Kong stock exchanges. Genting Berhad corporate headquarters is in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Genting Berhad consists of 5 major corporations.
1) Genting Berhad is an investment and managment holding company worth $4.3 billion.
2) Genting International PLC is an investment holding company worth $1.2 billion.
3) Asiatic Development Berhad is a plantation and property company worth $0.46 billion.
4) Resort World Berhad is a leisure and hospitality, gaming and entertainment company worth $3.6 billion.
5) Star Cruises Limited, and therefore NCL, provides cruise services worth $1.56 billion.
Star Cruises falls under the Resort World Berhad within the Genting Group corporate structure.

I don't mean to be negative...but have we checked wether or not Gentling Group has any Dubai interests directly or indirectly related to the building of the resort town in which "Project Dubai" is supposed to take place?

I'm getting the feeling these Genting/Star guys pulled a classic bait-and-switch with Carnival after aquiring over 50% of NCL stock...turning bonds into stocks which they knew their competitors would jump to get a bite off, until Carnival realized the sour taste of what they were in for with the dirty rotten scoundrels they were now in bed with and decided to lose interest and sell the stock...which they're only too happy to take control of and sumarily dismiss the board of directors.

Indeed, this is not the company that Knut Kloster founded, this is not the firm that rescued S.S. France and turned her into the biggest hit in the cruise business.

Ron's analysis is not based on dates or quotes, but rather an assumption that NCL and Star executives told the truth because it doesn't make sense for them to do otherwise given the circumstances. Equally plausible is the assumption that they wanted to scrap a vessel with a high level of historical significance, international notoriety and let's not forget all those carcinogens down below - and scrap it on a dime. If the job is gonna get done dirty, it's best if people aren't paying attention. They decide since insurance will only pay for boiler replacement, not diesel conversion, cut their liabilities and scrap. And since it can't be done right away, you have to prolong, and hide, and tow, and hold out, and fake out those trying to keep an eye on her.

One scenario assumes their actions are rational and honest and decisions made in a peacemeal manner, another assumes that their actions were pre-determined to delay moving forward as much as possible until the ship fades from memory, to go quietly into the night into an Indian beach. All things being equal, I'd have to give them the benefit of the doubt too and agree with Ron.

However, all things are NOT equal. Unfortunately for Star and NCL, there are a LOT of eyes on this ship - some with night goggles on, too. NCL's and Star's actions speak FAR loudly than their quotes.

After repeatedly saying through Jane Poh that "scrapping is permanently off the table" (see LeGlaneur.info 01/08/06 edition, translated by Keith on pp.6 of this forum), and guess what? THEY SELL HER FOR SCRAP AFTER LEAKING THE FAKE STORY TO THE PRESS! Ron apparently thinks this is not duplicitious or indicative of a predetermined alterior motive. So let's go farther back and see if we can corroborate this pattern with an earlier example.

How about Colin Veitch's March 04 statement that NCL is not in the business of operating old steam ships? I guess that doesn't show pre-disposition either.

But every good test has a control. If NCL's business is dirty, it's not just dirty in regards to fleet modernization and asset management - it's dirty everywhere. Proof is in the pudding.

5/2001, Norway is detained in port with over 100 violations. Must have been from all those repairs done following the earlier 1997 memos that called for "heart surgery" as opposed to cosmetic fixes.

But it seems they have a thing for cosmetic fixes after all. Veitch got the one maintenance tech he could find and made him work 24 hours straight to patch the sprinkler systems, after the coast guard agreed to let her depart if the ship passes inspection. She didn't and NCL canceled the cruise the next day. Refunds were hard-fought. Incidentally, they guy they made work a day straight was injured, he sued NCL, and thanks to their mighty "foreign arbitration" clause, he saw not one red cent. Plus risking the safety and lives of all the passengers in an attempt to forego required maintenance just to save a buck...of course, who wants to spend on a ship headed for Alang. Dirty enough for ya?

No?

Ok, how about 3/2002, when Veitch admitted to dumping raw untreated waste from Norway. Must have been because that well-maintained black water treatment plant was operating at full capacity from all the bullsh*t NCL executives were dumping into Norway's sewage system...had to go out somewhere, right?

Here's NCL's latest "promise": SSUS is next up for construction, according to Tan Sri Lim Kok Thay, president of Star, as quoted during the Pride of Hawaii innagural (see http://www.cruiseman.com/oldships.htm). I guess NCL forgot about the recent orders for Norwegian Pearl and Gem, two 93K ton floating buildings that they're supposed to pay Meyer Werft to build. I guess that money is most likely going to be diverted to SS United States, right?

These people have an established, identifiable pattern of misleading statements, secrecy, cutting corners, and violation of various international safety and toxic waste statute violations, all in the pursuit of money with no regard to honesty or tradition, which ultimately affects the QUALITY of the product as a whole - and NCL's performance shows this.

All things are NOT equal, Ron. WAKE UP! If you TRULY don't work as a smokescreen blog PR agent for them, then don't come and quote us a bunch of hogwash and offer it as evidence without even considering the other side of the coin. Bottom line = PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DIE IF NORWAY IS SCRAPPED IN ALANG.

STAR/NCL WANTS TO PRESS AHEAD RATHER THAN CONSIDER SELLING TO DUBAI, MUCH LESS FOLLOW THE LAW AND DECON IN AN OECD-NATION OR REFURBISH AND REDEPLOY INTO THE MARKET. IF THEY DON'T EVEN CARE THAT PEOPLE WILL DIE, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO GIVE THEM THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT AND ASSUME THEY'RE DOING HONEST BUSINESS? DOING SO IS MORALLY AND ETHICALLY INDEFENSIBLE AT THIS POINT!

And another thing, I think Mr. Thay can Sri Lim my Kok.

From Norway: We are a group of people planning to turn Norway into a PEACEBOAT. See link for equivalent project in Japan:
http://www.peaceboat.org/english/index.html

Does anyone know of similar projects for SS FRANCE/ SS NORWAY? Wouldn't this be a good service for this fantastic ship!?

We have discussed the idea with Knut Kloster, and he likes it. However, we don't have the capital yet.

Thank you for your interest in coming up with a possible reutilization role for this vessel. If the Dubai purchase bid ultimately fails, I would support Peaceboat's efforts to purchase and operate the vessel in their organization assuming they have the available capital needed for the power plant repairs or replacements which she requires. Personally, I feel that Peaceboat has a history and experience with reutilizing old, historic liners, and keeping them in good maintenance. A fitting career end to a celebrated vessel.

However, I doubt very much that Genting Group/Star Cruises/NCL will consider the prospect of selling to an international humanitarian organization. A company to which history and human life matters so little...let's just sat they might as well fix the ship themselves and donate it to Greenpeace for that matter. Not gonna happen in a million billion years as long as Genting and Star are in charge of NCL with the same people.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex79818:
Indeed, this is not the company that Knut Kloster founded, this is not the firm that rescued S.S. France and turned her into the biggest hit in the cruise business.

Very well said. I'm so happy that you realize that because I'm sure Knut Kloster is twisting and twriling over the fall of his creation/ cruiseline.