Still, you're attempting to convince a corporation to spend $50 to $75 Million Euros on a ship it has already decided it doesn't want to spend more money on anymore.
Star Cruises and NCL will scuttle her first. Any loses will be scrap prices for the ship which they have already written off. And that's much less than any repair bills.
Besides, Star Cruises and NCL would have to spend more money upgrading her waste handling equipment to meet the new SOLAS laws about to come into effect. We're probably talking about spending another $50-$75 Million Euros ontop of the repair bills, especially on replacing all her pipes.
Today's diesel propulsion is much cheaper than steam propulsion on maintenance and operating costs. The Norway was very expensive to run, and when it could draw top dollar fares, and when oil prices were much less, NCL could afford operating her. But, in her latter years, the Norway was no longer drawing higher fares, and the price for oil has gone up higher.
Why repair the boliers when what one really needs to do is replace the entire engine plant and put diesels in her? There's another $50 to $75 Million Euros going down the drain.

Yes,to scuttle her is much cheaper........

Interesting and ironic status change: from Atlantic monarch to international pariah.

Ron,

Not only am I attempting to convince a corporation (not necessarily Star by the way) to spend 50 to 75M E, but in fact something on the order of $150 to $200 M.
I am not proposing yet another "fix" refurbishment - I am proposing a complete gutting and rebuilding of the entire ship, bow to stern and stack to keel.

Any attempt to repair means that some problems will be fixed, but her underlying problems will still remain. Frankly, from an operational perspective, the only thing that's up to par about the ship with her contemporaries is the hull, which is in fantastic condition despite the age. I am trying to approach the problem from a new perspective - finding an investor, preferably a new contender to the cruise industry, with the financial backing and vision to back the complete re-engineering and re-building of the very last transatlantic liner of the 20th century.

A task so large and so expensive requires by definition that the ship be treated as a newbuild. If the ship is considered "empty" from an engineering perspective (i.e. removal of all fixtures, internal systems, operational infrastructure, power plant, etc), its internal spaces can then be analyzed from a fresh 21st century utilization perspective. Space allocations can then be reorganized based on the priorities for her new role. This is the key to discovering the ship's true market potential as an operational vessel, which is impossible in her current configuration.

Take, for example, her engine rooms. With modern powerplants, she doesn't need two of them. The complete power plant can now be rebuilt entirely within the space of the aft engine room, while the entire forward engine room, engine casings, and exhaust ventilation running all the way up from the bowels to the forward stack, would be completely gutted and would become free and open space.

In other words, it would leave a big empty hall inside of the ship, and a large empty shaft that runs vertically from one end of the hall at the bottom of the ship to the very top of the ship, where you have a rather large smokestack that is now non-functional. Hmm....what could that space possibly be used for....I wonder....

...if there was only some sort of example to follow...where modern cruise ships routinely utilize big empty spaces inside their hulls for passenger use.....or build passenger infrastructure in big vertical shafts that run the height of the ship....if I could only think of a feature commonly seen on cruise ships these days....hmm....

Norway offers any potential buyer a host of revenue-attracting features. The question is wether or not a buyer would be saavy enough to see them, because they are truly hidden due to her original design. Maximizing these original design features for use nowadays, with minor structural modifications is the key.

This is also the complete opposite approach to NCL's redesign philosophy: forcing an ocean liner into becoming a competent cruise liner by making major structural modifications without regard to original intent and design. While an interior mall and atrium where forward engine room and exhaust vents & elevator shafts used to be does constitute a distinctly different use, it follows the original design of the vessel in that there's SUPPOSED to be a big empty space down there. The originally designed feature is still there, simply re-engineered to serve a different purpose -while NCL's path was to eliminate or cover up those original design features in favor of something that would replace them instead of re-employing them.

What other parts of this ship can be re-engineered or re-used? How about the sports deck, for one. For those who've never sailed on her and thus, never had the pleasure of NCL's highly organized (hahahaah) lifeboat drill, it might surprise you to know that lifeboats are loaded not at the outside lifeboat decks, but rather at the interior (formerly first class) promenades, through reinforced window panes that swing down and out.

This means there's an entire deck with a huge outside verandah running the length of the superstructure on either side. Cabins on that deck can be modified to have verandah exposure, and each cabin's verandah space can be separated by a simple reinforced roll-up tarp with a common spring mechanism (like a blind, only that it pulls out sideways). The tarp separator could be rolled out from the bulkhead to the handrail, and attached at the handrail end by solenoids controlled from the bridge.

The result?

Over 100 new private verandah cabins are added to the vessel without altering her looks or adding another deck. And in case of an emergency that requires crew access, all the bridge officer has to do is press a button to cut power to the solenoids holding the tarp in place. The electromagnet is turned off, the tarps roll up by themselves, and crewmembers move in - and since it's an emergency, guests won't mind (they should be at the lifeboat stations by now anyway).

With this approach, anything can be done. The pool areas amidships and aft can all be modernized...restaurants can be added...public rooms restored. The ship keeps all of her charm and yet is completely modernized, re-engineered to meet SOLAS 2010, is completely decontaminated, and offers a cruise venue that is unique to the industry. Plus let's not forget that she blew up in Miami, making her eligible for US registration.

In fact, the only aspects of the rebuilding her that WOULD require major modifications is re-designing the fore and aft superstructure ends, from the straight lines and angles that the NCL refurbishments created, back to graceful and elegantly-curved bulkheads located aft, and a complete reconstruction of the front facade to restore its original look. Forward balcony verandah's would go away, the entire forward superstructure would be enclosed once again, a brand new state of the art navigational bridge would be fitted on the crown, and the space where the bridge currently is can be remodeled into new cabins, or yet another new public room, such as a forward-looking lounge.

She's still got potential. Star couldn't see it if it bit them in the arsse. If you love this ship and want to see her sail again, profitably, then you cannot allow yourself to lose hope until she's on a beach. The current legal situation surrounding Clemenceau will bear much weight on the future of Norway, and let's not forget that Norway's movements themselves are under investigation by the Malaysian government. There's plenty of processes holding up the sale, and now's the time to come up with something new and place it in front of the right people.

The Indian supreme court will make its decision next friday, Jan 20th, as to wether or not Clemenceau will be allowed to enter Indian waters to be scrapped at Alang. Our best bet is to come up with a pertinent and cogent plan before then, SOON, and put that plan before the right people ASAP. If the court decides Clem can be scrapped, then Norway is soon to follow her to Alang. If not, we'll have more time, but right now we need action. All other proposals (re-engine, repair, hotel ship, tourist attraction, hospital ship, museum, etc) have been floated and they all sank as they are cost-prohibitive. The only thing that's not cost-prohibitive on the same scale is a new ship, and investors expect a return on that, which means everything has to be brand new. This is the only fresh perspective I've come across - treat the investment not as a refurb or repair, but rather as a newbuild.
It restores the economy of scale that the ship represents, and due to its popularity and high capacity, would probably be highly successful.

If you have deveopled anything on this ship before - marketing plans, restoration ideas, drawings, illustrations, etc....ANYTHING - now's the time to contribute. Fresh ideas and decisive action is what's needed to save this ship. If anyone out there reading this agrees with me, please contact me asap and let's brainstorm toghether. The goal is to have a finished rebuilding plan and business model, with illustrations, by the end of the week. We also need to know of potential investors who might want to get involved in the cruise business and are looking for something unique. We've lost so many unique and classic liners in 2005 to the beaches of Alang. Let's start 2006 by working toghether to prevent the greatest and last of them from seeing a blowtorch anytime soon.

The next 40 years of her life are up to those who love her.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex79818:
What other parts of this ship can be re-engineered or re-used? How about the sports deck, for one. For those who've never sailed on her and thus, never had the pleasure of NCL's highly organized (hahahaah) lifeboat drill, it might surprise you to know that lifeboats are loaded not at the outside lifeboat decks, but rather at the interior (formerly first class) promenades, through reinforced window panes that swing down and out.

This means there's an entire deck with a huge outside verandah running the length of the superstructure on either side. Cabins on that deck can be modified to have verandah exposure, and each cabin's verandah space can be separated by a simple reinforced roll-up tarp with a common spring mechanism (like a blind, only that it pulls out sideways). The tarp separator could be rolled out from the bulkhead to the handrail, and attached at the handrail end by solenoids controlled from the bridge.

The result?

Over 100 new private verandah cabins are added to the vessel without altering her looks or adding another deck. And in case of an emergency that requires crew access, all the bridge officer has to do is press a button to cut power to the solenoids holding the tarp in place. The electromagnet is turned off, the tarps roll up by themselves, and crewmembers move in - and since it's an emergency, guests won't mind (they should be at the lifeboat stations by now anyway).

I'm confused by this. I am not aware of a Sports Deck on SS Norway. The interior promenade on which muster drills were held was International Deck, and there are very few cabins here -- all are located forward. Revamping this area to include cabins would involve destroying the heart of the ship, which includes Club Internationale, the first and second class childrens' playrooms, and other original gems.

The deck with the outside veranda running the length of the ship is Olympic Deck, one above International Deck. If this is the area that the balcony additions refer to, that would leave no outdoor promenade and would change the ship's exterior drastically.

It's possible I'm missing something...

Lisa,

I was referring to Olympic deck...the balcony additions would not be a dramatic change as there's a deck width safety requirement, from handrail to bulkhead.

Only the interior layout of cabins on those decks would be affected, with no exterior change other than the flooring, installation of cabin doors leading to the verandah, and the privacy tarp curtain. Everything would retain its current aspect.

An outdoor promenade/jogging track can be built on top of the modified superstructure, in such a way that it would pose no significant aesthetic change other than returning the ship's original "look" from the outside.

Good News...

The S/S Norway's sale to an Indian scraper was just cancelled...

http://www.ouest-france.fr/ofeconomie.asp?idDOC=276569&idCLA=3634

more informations/photos/links...: wwW.LeGlaneur.info in French...

and in english: translate.google.com/.../wwW.LeGlaneur.info

English translation from another source (Sorry for computer's translation skills from Frence to English)...

<<<BEGIN>>>

The sale of cancelled ex-France!

Ex-France, January 8, has patience off the coasts of Malaysia. MaxPPP

The difficulties encountered by Clemenceau to cross Suez Canal and the stress laid on the asbestos-covered ships, on this occasion, cause unexpected consequences: the sale of ex-France was cancelled by its owner, Star Cruise.
December 27, 2005, the maritime company Star Cruise, current owner of the steamer Norway, the ex- France, sold the ship with an American company, Global Marketing System (GMS). Which was on the point of reselling it with an Indian demolition contracter with whom it works regularly, Shree RAM Vessel Crap Ldt, of Alang. But the fear of a lawsuit, where justice could only apply the convention of Basle, prohibiting the sale with the countries of the South of the asbestos-covered ships, made fear.

A few months ago, the departure of the steamer of Bremerhaven, in Germany, obtained the green light of the harbour authorities, because, at the time, Star Cruise declared that the ship was to join an Australian company and renaviguer. What placed it apart from the convention of Basle which regent only the demolitions.

Patatras. The terms of the sale to American company GMS, stipulating that the steamer was to be demolished, contradicted the first declarations of Cruise Star. And left the large door open to the attack of the ecomovements. Right now, the legal services of Cruise Star estimate that, if the company persists in its intention to send the ship to the breakers, it could be seen inflicting a penalty of several tens of million dollars! Star Cruise reconsidered thus the sale and refunded the purchaser. Norway is not any more to sell, in any case for the demolition. It comprises much more asbestos than Clemenceau . The spokesman of Star Cruise, Jane Poh, speaks about 3 000 T!

By drawing the attention of the world to the asbestos contained in the ships, the militants of Greenpeace caused a small miracle for the in love ones with the steamer: they pushed back the end of Norway. Business to be followed with, undoubtedly, of new bounces...

<<<END>>>

Now what? The legacy lives on!!

I beleive that the actions of ALEX79818 helped make this possible....and all the hard work and effort he has put into this matter contributed greatly to the continued "stay of execution" of this grand lady.

Hats of to you, Alex, and all others who have grand visions for future of this ship!!

Let's hope this effort and positive result has convinced potential investors to purchase the Norway and make these visions a reality!

Long live SS France!! Long live SS Norway!!

But now what?

Call me cynical, but I'll believe it when I see it. I hope I'm wrong, but this sounds too good to be true!

Thank you for the clarification, Alex. While I'm not fond of adding balconies to Olympic Deck cabins, or changing the ship further than has already been -- I can learn to live with it if it keeps the Grande Dame afloat.

I now have an inkling of what it must have felt like in the 1970s when she was laid up for five years.

Watch Star Cruise scuttle her now.

Cautious optimism is a description I would use...though hearing this development has certainly made my day! :-))))) Of course none of this would be possible without the hard work of Mr. Lhertier at Associacion Pour L'ex France, as well as Greenpeace, Basel Action Network (BAN) and most of all, the extremely hard work of everyone in the Basel Convention Secretariat of the UN. Everyone worked very hard to bring both the Norway and Clemenceau issues to the public light, and focusing on Clemenceau first was definitely the right move.

I am awaiting response from my contact in Malaysia's Dept. of Environment/Hazardous Substances Division to confirm the report and wether or not the investigation against Star is ongoing or has been dropped. In the back of my mind there's always the possibility that this is just another ruse to get a tow contract for her...if she were under Basel violations, no tug vessel flagged in signatory country (such as "De Da") would be allowed to tow her. For now I think the situation is mostly under control...latest sattelite photographs confirm she's staying put.

Scuttling at sea is always an issue but one which I don't think is very likely because 1) the ship still has over 1K tons of asbestos on board which will eventually be released into the ocean, exposing Star to further legal consequences...and 2) They've got 3 large classic and very popular liners on their hands and their first attempt to scap one has gone awry.

The strategy now is to find an investor who is willing to put up the money for a complete rebuild...treating the investment as if it were new tonnage altoghether. There's not too many people with that kind of scratch laying around who may be willing to do that.

As much as I too would hate any further modifications to the vessel, the fact is that she is lacking in verandah cabins and simply needs more of them to stay competitive. Of all the possible modifications that could be made to accomplish this, installing deck hatches or sliding doors on outside olympic deck cabins would probably be the most minor and reversible of all.

But at least the sword of Damocles seems to have gone away. Time to go to work.

Hi,

Greetings to all there,

Yes it sems to remain hope for the last true liner of the late century but we must remain cautious... The main fact now is that Star Cruises must act quickly if they want to stop the waste of money regarding SS Norway. There is one interesting project of using her as an hospital ship but I'm quite skeptical because the UN and the European Commission are involved[... More seriously regarding the amount of time
for the study of this conversion I'm afraid that Star will sell her to some less interesting project like the floating casino of Mr Post. I do hope that Norway will sail again but we must remain on guard until her new sale's contract is signed!

The S/S Norway is safe for now. But is scraping put off forever is is this just temp. Star will do something to get the ship scraped soon. So we must act fast. who would be good investors? if we make a list we could contact them one by one and see who is going to assure life to this great ship. just an idea from a 15 year old

Long live S/S Norway

hey everyone out there.

I am new on this site,

I have been following the SS Norway very closely. I haved loved liners since I was a litle boy.

I think it would be so cool if the Norway was completely restored.

What is the latest news?

Thanks

It now appears that SS Norway has been "black listed" at all Asian scrapping locations, leaving Europe and the US as the only possible (and substanially more expensive) places to scrap. What this means effectively is that any Asian scrapper who buys her will be stuck with her.

Concordently, Star PLC Malaysia has announced that the scrapping option is permanently off the table. The ship is still anchored off Port Klang, she is still up for sale though the asking price has been substantially reduced from the original U$D 35M, down to U$D 10M.

That is such good news,

Someone should buy her and put her next to the Queen Mary in long beach.

just a thought.

Hi Alex, You're real good news messenger now.
Place of doom at Alang is away from Norway, but
I'm still afraid about real possibility of serious investor. Without it will be wasted chance and ship will only rust away.
But stop, cause I'm believin' in miracles now.
Unfortunately my English is not able to real brainstorming about.
Regards
Michael

So Norway is persona non grata at Asian scrapyards. Good show. Obviously, Star/NCL has a major problem -- a blue elephant. The likelihood of them or anyone ponying up the money to repair her propulsion machinery (or replace it) plus bring her into compliance with upcoming SOLAS regs is slim to none. And that doesn't begin to speak to the need to add the features that cruisers expect on a modern cruise ship. The ship may be a classic to some of us here but the mainstream cruise audience is interested in lots of balconies, rock-climbing walls, etc., etc. and without these Norway is not competitive in the marketplace.

I agree that having an --uh, accident befall the ship is unlikely given the utter transparency of such an event, if it occurred.

Our best hope is that one of the agencies originally interested in the ship (the French consortium that wanted to dock her permanently in Honfleur, for example) will now take a second look given that the lowered asking price makes the proposition more attractive. One can hope that the ongoing example of the Rotterdam (v) will provide a pattern for Our Beloved Majesty's future.