Ron,

I don't blame NCL / Star because they want to sell her and see no viable way of operating her in the future. They're not in the charity business, after all.

But fact is that NCL has done everything possible to not tell the truth about their intentions regarding the "Norway" for years. "She will be back in October, 2003, promised." "Well, it's going to be spring, 2004 now." "Oh well, we can't bring her back into service, but she will continue to be operated by Star Cruises." "Okay, Star Cruises won't operate her, but she will not be sold for scrap, promised."

What I dislike about NCL is that it is a company which in the past has relied heavily on misleading or at least not informing the public correctly. Why did NCL say they will put the "Norway" back into service when Colin Veitch told me personally onboard "Norwegian Jewel" this summer that they actually never had the intention to do so? Why didn't NCL offensively handle the "Norwegian Dream" engine problem? Instead of providing as little information as at all possible (with the result being thousands of angry and disappointed passengers) they could have simply presented the facts which would have left them with two options: Modifying the itineraries until the engine can be repaired or cancelling all cruises until the engine can be repaired. I'm sure that with these two options passengers would have been more willing to accept the modified itineraries, but because of the way NCL handled this (with lots of passengers learning about the changes on the pier only) passengers felt cheated and misinformed.

Well, NCL has been upfront about the Star's azipods problems. The need to reduce speed and dropping two ports while adding two other ports hasn't been fully accepted by many passengers.
Those who cruises were cancelled seem the most upset.

Even up to $100 per cabin onboard credits, which over 4 months adds up to over a million dollars in credits, hasn't satisfied many.

While I agree the way they handled the Dream's engine problems last year was forthright, they didn't know how long it would take to repair the engine as they do with the Star because they were attempting to repair the engine without drydocking or while it was in service.

So either way NCL handles misfortune, passengers get upset.

Bonjour,

J'ai fait un résumé de ce que nous savons à l'heure qu'il est sur l'avenir du Paquebot Norway ex-France avec une liste des sites d'information, forums pour suivre l'actualité et les lieux d'échanges...

Français: wwW.LeGlaneur.info

Bonne lecture et bon surf...
partager vos découvertes... confirmations, photos, anecdotes d'actualités, merci et

A bientôt...

LeGlaneur.info

Hello,

I made a summary of what we know at this moment about the future of the Passenger ship SS Norway ex-France with a list of the sites of information, forum to follow the current events and places of exchanges...

English: Babelfish.Altavista.com/.../LeGlaneur

English: translate.Google.com/.../LeGlaneur]

Good reading and good surfing, share your discoveries, confirmations, photos, anecdotes of news, thank you and

Goodbye...

LeGlaneur.info

In reply to Jörg, the FRANCE did six-day crossings during her final season in 1974. Typically, she was in New York twice a month, and would arrive and depart on the same day. We departed on 25 July 1974 at 1845 hrs. We arrived at Ocean Terminal Southampton around noon on the 31st, and departed around 1600, arriving at LeHavre about 2230. The ship sailed again the next day, but I don't know what time. I believe the ship visited New York just over 200 times between 1962 and 1974.

If you scroll down to the Norway on the following link, it says the ship has been sold for scrap.

Norway Sold For Scrap

Personally, I'm waiting to see what NCL/Star does about the high asbestos content onboard the Norway. It is somewhat obvious that they only moved to Norway to Port Klang in an effort to out maneuver the EU and their concerns about how the ship would be "dismantled". Also, the ship has been on Greenpeace's "top 10" of ships to be monitored. We'll see what happens, but if my suspicions are correct (and I hope they're not), we'll find that NCL/Star will do nothing other than get assurances from the scrapyard that proper "precautions" will be taken. I'm sickened by the whole situation...a ship of this history and beauty should be preserved. She was built as a personal project of Charles DeGaulle...and named after two different countries. If this ship can not generate a groundswell for preservation or reactivation, no one ever will. If NCL won't put the Norway back into service, why should anyone believe that the the SS United States' and Independence's futures are any brighter???

Yes, the French became all dewy-eyed about the loss of their "national treasure" when she was rescued by the Norwegians. Now they've let her slip through their national fingers yet again.

Not often a nation gets TWO opportunities to save a ship that's an instrumentality of national genius. Both wasted, apparently.

Talk was always cheap, I guess. Damn shame, lovely lady.

As sad as this is -- and keep in mind that I have a great love for this ship -- her owners didn't have much of a choice. As Raoul pointed out, it was not economically feasible to keep her in service.

While NCL brought the ship as up-to-date as possible, there came a point when she simply could not compete with ships 40 years her junior. Nostalgia will not keep a ship going. I find it ironic how some of the so-called France preservationists I've met will book nothing but a cabin with balcony, ca. 1990. Today's cruisers simply want more, and although I felt she provided a wonderful cruise experience, I and other fans of the ship are in the minority.

I hope, at least, that many of her wonderful treasures will turn up on other ships. There is a great amount of history aboard -- from her 12 years as SS France and her 20+ years as SS Norway -- that would be a shame to lose.

Let us also not forget the crew members who perished on that tragic day SS Norway was removed from service permanently.

Farewell, dear Lady of the Seas. You will indeed be missed.

I've been trying to think more objectively about the impending fate of FRANCE/NORWAY.

It's hard to blame NCL; the company ended up with an obsolescent, seriously-wounded 40-year-old ship, and it can't be held responsible for finding her a safe retirement venue. I just wish some municipal agency (such as the one that had proposed a hotel/museum berth at Honfleur) had followed through, and that maybe the French government had lent some support.

Then again, it's easy for us to say. Preserving a retired ship is a huge order. I can't avoid thinking of the formidable start-up costs,and then the cosmetic and hotel-mechanical upkeep of a highly maintenance-intensive structure.

It makes me think that QUEEN MARY (and now, hopefully ROTTERDAM v)owe their continued existence to their extraordinary impact upon the public consciousness. Very, very few ships are so fortunate! Regrettably, we must face the likelihood that, for all her legions of ardent admirers, FRANCE/NORWAY has not had quite the same impact.

Still, it's a damn shame.

Greetings and a Happy New Year to all.

I'm new to this site, but not new to the cruise ship industry.

I'm quite a vintage cruise ship buff myself, and a contributor to the http://www.maritimematters.com website. I have been interested in the story of the France/Norway for quite some time.

Concerning the Norway, I've been in contact with Greenpeace concerning the predicted destinations and thank all from this site who have provided the public with up-to-date notifications concerning the ship.

I've also tried to drum up interest from investors concerning keeping the Norway afloat. The last investor (Charles Schwab investments) was advertising publically on the web for vintage ships and even had their eye on the Norway. I emailed them 2 weeks ago reminding them the Norway was being inspected by scrap merchants "as we speak". They promptly replied, "We are waiting for the $35 Million selling price to lower to a price equivalent to what the scrappers will be offering". Evidently, this price came and went as the investors, to my knowledge, made no offer for the ship. As noted in other posts....the initial financial investment when compared to the unknown potential of profit must have been far too great to convince this group of investors to bring this great ship to a safe port.

Hopefully, if the Norway's fate is carved in stone, other, smaller investors such as Peter Knego, noted ship historian, will be allowed to purchase many of the old girl's fixtures, fittings and related artifacts. Peter currently has a new website called Midshipcentury.com where you can buy many artifacts from ships he has been allowed to visit whilst awaiting their fate on the shores of Alang. He has a video titled "On the Road to Alang", where he documents some of the ships while he was there in 2004. He is scheduled to produce a followup Alang video this spring, but with the knowledge and love for the Norway, he may decide to visit and document that spectical as well. Another sad ending for a great liner.

To all...Have a Happy and Healthy New Year.

Long live the SS France...love live the SS Norway.

Sincerely, Keath Otis, Long Island, New York

If it is true, and she is to go to 'scrap,' then all of us have lost something quite extraordinary.
The web-sites that detail the muddy beaches of Chittagong make me shudder at the thought of the France/Norway being pulled apart there--when less than three years ago she lived on.
I understand that it is 'business,' but it is also the soul of this great ship that has infected all of us. Is there a cure?

It's true sad story, the end of the great liner at Sitakunda Beach...

S.O.S.
Please stand with me as we together S.O.S. the Norway from the decks of the Norway we can mount a rescue mission for the S.S.United States with world wide coverage. The only way to save these ships and get the S.S.U.S. put back together is to give her to the country for a loving refit. Under the Casualties Of War these ships will always have a large crew living on board paying the bills giving tours of the ship and moving them about the country short hops from port to port there is a large number of Navy retired that will gladly move these ships whenever possible I will cosign with 300 students on fifty thousand dollar tuition loans the first payment on these loans will be due in 2010 the payment will be around 250 dollars does that worry any body we have four years to make it work before it costs any of us even one red cent I will put up collateral for these loans if you can’t afford it on your own or if you have reservations. Some close friends of mine are #1,2&3 I’m putting an ad on radio to find #4 if you find #6,7&8 I will cosign with them also. Go to http://www.casualtiesofwar.biz fill out a student form soon, time is running out. You will get a first class stateroom for twenty years there is no better place to live or sell it back to the ship for a hundred thousand dollars before it costs you one red cent this is going to take a lot of guts but once it’s done you will start getting excited. Don’t miss the party at Penn’s Landing. “Lord be with us as we seek to save this old ship to be used as a boarding school for the casualties of war may all that is done be according to your will and your purpose for the men that answered the call to arms in Jesus name thank you Lord amen.”
Yours truly Wes Perry CEO Where will you be standing on St. Crispin’s day?

One can only hope she founders enroute. Better the depths than that awful beach.

According to "Maritime Matters," NORWAY may now be headed for Alang in a possible deal between scrap merchants. No word on when.

Hi Raoul, New Year regard from Czech rep. What you are thinking about:
....................
CAUTION: With IN LOVE with S/S NORWAY, EX France
For the foreigner, all the emails sent must be addressed in English.
Dutch is ready to buy the NORWAY. He has MONEY.
But the steamer at summer sold at the end of December to an INDIAN breaker.
STAR CRUISE by a clause assassinates in the sale contract prohibited to the breaker to resell the ship with nona breaker.
UNISONS last once our efforts to make bend STAR CRUISES, by flooding emails 3 following recipients that we give you.
NCL MIAMI to the attention of HAKE VEITCH President: cveitch@ncl.com
STAR CRUISE MALAYSIA to the attention of GERALD LIM Vice President : gerard@starcruises.com.my its Secretariat louisatam@starcruises.com.hk
The Door word of the Star Cruises Mrs. Jane Poh: sjpoh@starcruises.com.my
"TO LET LIVE NORWAY," ex FRANCE ""
let live NORWAY, ex FRANCE, by withdrawing the prohibition of resale of the steamer to a purchaser who will give him a new life!!

Association "For the Steamer France".
Michel Perrin.
......................

It's from French pages revedefrance.com

Regards

Michael

Glimmer of hope?

Just received a hopeful email from a person who I've been in contact with who is involved in the reinvestment/saving of the SS Norway. There may be some legal issues involving the asbestos that was not removed from Norway while in Germany....and futher issues towing the now "sold for scrap" contaminated ship from Port Klang to any other port other than Brememhaven.

A partial excerpt from his email to me follows:

Start:

"However a bit of good news, I was going to email Martin Cox later on today about
this...to stop the Norway from leaving Kelang, I filed a complaint with Basel.
It's a long, drawn-out message but essentially it states that 1) towing her out
of Bremerhaven with the intention to scrap is a violation of Basel and EWSR,
2) Intention to tow is now proven under Basel by virtue of the fact that brokers
now list Norway as "sold for scrapping" 3) Even if it can't be proven whether or
not Star/NCL had intention to scrap at the time of removal from Bremerhaven, it
is clear that they now do...and since Malaysia and Bangladesh are both Basel
signatory parties, the ship is considered waste and is in violation.

Anyway...it took a while to get a response, I guess because they decided which
way they were going to go with this. Plus, with everything going on with the
"Clemenceau" <<My insert: "Clemenceau" is a French warship currently being stopped from entering the Suez Canal by Egyptian authorities because of Asbestos contamination...it was being towed to Alang>>...I guess Norway took a backseat. But eventually they got their game in
gear and decided the strongest case they had was preventing the waste export
from Malaysia to Bangladesh. They contacted the Malaysian Dept. of Environment,
and I am happy to report that I received a letter from a Ms. Siti Zaleha Ibrahim
in that Department's Hazardous Substances Division, informing me that an
investigation has been started against Star PLC Malaysia in this matter.

With any luck (not much I know) this will go to court and the ship could be
arrested at port and prevented to leave. If Basel then determines the movement
from Bremerhaven was illegal, she will be handed over to the German gov't who
would then be responsible for towing her back to a German port (at Owner's
expense) and remain arrested there until decontaminated or verifiably employed
in active sea trade. The goal, of course, is to raise awareness of the Asbestos
issue to international watchdog organizations so as to make scrapping her more
expensive than fixing the powerplant. "

End of excerpt.

Hopefully, legal issues will give this great liner a (slim) chance for investors other than scrap merchants to buy her. I'll post any news I receive.

Keath.

Michael,

there's a discussion going on about this in our German forum, already. It is partially held in English as one of the participating members has posted in English, so here's the link:

http://cruise-chat.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/883605432...371030281#5371030281

Usually, no English postings should be made in the German forum, but we're making an exception here for the most beautiful ship on earth!

Trying to force NCL and Star Cruises to fix the boilers, amongst asbestos, will not succeed.

It's just too expensive. If they can't sell her to the scrap yards, they'll scuttle her and take the miniscue loss instead.

Give up! NCL and Star Cruises has given other investors over two years to save the this ship from the scrap yard. No one except the scrappers have shown any serious interests of wanting her.

Ron,

NO WAY!

This fight is far from over. The one thing that Star wants oponents to do is to roll over and surrender.

The fact is, Clemenceau has about a quarter of the Asbestos that Norway has. This is a pivotal case for the future of Norway - realize that if Indian authorities will not allow Clemenceau to enter Indian waters, there's no way that Norway will be allowed to enter.

Second point: there are no facilities in Bangladesh with the infrastructure necessary to dismantle a vessel as large, and long, as Norway. LONG here is the word. Norway's 1035-ft length means ALL 1035 feet of her must be firmly planted on the beach before the first blow torch ever digs into her hull. If Bangladesh could accomodate her, don't you think the sale would have gone through by now? Don't you think Star would have done everything in its power to tow the vessel out of Malaysian waters discreetly, under cover of night, before Basel and the Malaysian government got involved? She'd be in pieces already if that were the case. The only other option is Alang, or a facility in europe or the US, all of which will not allow dismantling without prior decontamination.

The initial repair estimate, if I recall correctly, was around the neighborhood of $50 to $75 M Euros. I bet after the perpetual port fees add up, that's going to start to sound pretty good to Star. Perhaps they may even come to the realization that an inversment to rebuild - not refurbish, but rebuild - her and place her back into service could pay off in the future.

Star is a corporation. They don't care about history, all they care about is the bottom line. Basel is only a temporary stay of execution, but it is a good tool to show NCL that its bottom line would be better served with Norway repaired and making money. There is a real opportunity here that legal problems may alter that bottom line for Star, and turn a plan to scrap into a plan to rebuild.

As long as that chance is there, I for one will not give up.