Originally posted by Jim C.: MercuryQueen and MinotauronMauretania also Phil in England-
This is a warning to stop posting political commentary and insulting another country's government. This forum is not the place for it and it will not be tolerated.
If the bashing of the Indian court system continues, we may be forced to shut down the thread. Please don't make us do that.
Jim with respect, I feel that my comments about the apparent inactivity of the Indian Supreme Court was not a political statement but rather an observation of the whole Norwary/SS Saga and the way it appears to have been (mis) handled by the judicial system there. I make no political references per se, certainly in the UK we consider it normal to express dissatisfaction or inequality, without picking in particular on any one country. It just so happens that in case, Norway/SS France is on Indian soil, my views would have been the same on any nation's territory. I have no axe to grind against India. I'm not politically motivated! kind regards, Phil.
Ditto... and as I recall... we have the freedom of free speech. Unless something has been changed without us knowing about it.
you forget that an internet forum ist not a democracy!
It's also not that you cannot name the facts here. It's one thing to say "the court said A and what it does / allows now is B" and another one to say "the court is rubbish" or something like that.
Why not present the facts and let the users reach their own conclusions based on them?
I makes me very upset that the engine disaster could have been prevented. It's so sad that the SS Norway could have had an happy retirement were it not for that because the explosion caused the spread of asbestos around that area of the ship. Therefore, it would have cost a lot more to clean up because of the damage that was inflicted.
As I have mentioned a few times in my previous post, the SS Norway could have followed in the footsteps of the QE2 and the SS Rotterdam with no hesitation. But thanks to Star Cruises, its nothing more than a dream that will never be realized.
Dan Lague
Posts: 350 | Location: Florida | Registered: May 16, 2006
I know in the UK, neglegence involving health and safety issues can carry an unlimited fine. I'm not sure of US procedures though. What price can you (or a court) put on a human life - Phillipino or otherwise?
Can NCL / Star afford a fine for both the boiler explosion and for illegally exporting The Independence??
I'm assuming NCL feel they can weather whatever penalty is handed out for the boiler explosion, hence the 'guilty' plea. Surely if they thought the fine would cripple them, they would contest it. Better to risk going bust to a defence lawyer defending you, than risk going bust because of the will of the court.
Posts: 39 | Location: Dorset, UK | Registered: December 06, 2007
I don't think so. What concerns the NORWAY, they will probably say once more, that they did not know about such a problem and Bureau Veritas (????) did a bad job (as they already did in 2003). And the INDEPENDENCE, You know, they sold before it left San Francisco. If only the courts can proof, that this was only a game in order to save the money for scrapping the ship lawfully ..............
Nederland 1984 - Fascination 2003 - Carnival Triumph 2004 - Carnival Legend 2005 - Costa Victoria 2006 - MSC Musica 2007 - Costa Atlantica 2007 - MSC Sinfonia 2008
point is, by pleading guilty, NCL have admitted liability. The court will fine them, then they will have to counter sue the contractor they believe done a substandard job.
Ultimately, NCL were aware of fatigued boilers, and were aware they were not designed for the stresses of frequent shutdown and restart cycles that inter island cruising necessatates
Posts: 39 | Location: Dorset, UK | Registered: December 06, 2007
Originally posted by Derf: point is, by pleading guilty, NCL have admitted liability. The court will fine them, then they will have to counter sue the contractor they believe done a substandard job.
Ultimately, NCL were aware of fatigued boilers, and were aware they were not designed for the stresses of frequent shutdown and restart cycles that inter island cruising necessatates
I agree entirely - from my post on 1st January: "...part of the problem is that France was designed as a transatlantic ship and was not really intended to make relatively short stops as a cruise ship. From the report investigating the boiler explosion, there is evidence to suggest that the boilers were being fatigued because of the increased cold-hot-cold cycling due to these short trips. It's a law of physics really, the same applies to electronic systems that are more likely to fail if they are switched on an off repeatedly - the same even goes for a car engine and its components. Nevertheless, the explosion risks were undoubtedly magnified because of poor maintenance and corner-cutting when bringing the boilers up to operating temperature and these factors point back to the operator acting in a manner showing lack of regard for this increased risk. Just like Concorde crashing due to negligence (bits of metal falling of another plane and being left on the runway) it is a tragedy that such factors resulted in the loss of life and ultimately the loss of these two iconic engineering marvels and amongst other things, quite simply beautiful creations".
This will put to rest the latest hoax about her hull and funnels going to Dubai. Unless, of course, Dubai plans to rebuild the entire ship from pieces.
Originally posted by Peter Knego: I just posted the latest image of BLUE LADY, taken yesterday. It is possibly the most sad and shocking of all, so my apologies and warning in advance:
No need to apologize, Peter, but I'm feeling sad, even guilty, every time I look at one of these grisly pictures. It's a bit like watching a beloved horse or pet being slowly devoured by vultures. Maybe worse. Especially depressing when you knew the ship "back when."
I recall John Maxtone-Graham mentioning M. Hardy-Panit, the pastry chef from FRANCE who lived across the Bay of the Seine from Le Havre in Honfleur, but who could not bring himself to look at the ship during her five-year layup at the Quai d'Oubli. Maybe I too need to stop looking.
Posts: 292 | Location: Upstate NY | Registered: December 29, 2005
I find the pictures to be very interesting. I am trying to figure out the reasoning behind they way the breakers are cutting up the ship. At first I thought they would be working top down, but now it looks like they are working down through the ship at the one point. Maybe they need to cut it open enough to remove the engines and heavier infrastructure pieces? Interesting...
CCL Fantasy 1990 CCL Celebration 1995 CCL Victory 2005 CCL Conquest 2005 CCL Spirit June 2006 NCL Dream October 2006 RCCL Mariner OTS June 2007 CCL Freedom June 2008 CCL Holiday July 2008
That is always the mystery. Normally, the greater portion of the bow goes first, leading to the superstructure and a gradual procession aft (although the stern overhang is also one of the first things to go). With the beautiful STELLA SOLARIS, the process went inward, leaving the ship's profile virtually intact, but just the center sliver of decks with funnel and mast still towering over the keel, almost to the end. Sometimes I wonder if the breakers take a liking to certain features and want them to last longer than others. Sort of how one might eat a piece of cake, saving the best bits for last. In the BLUE LADY case, I think he will have to repeat the same process on the starboard side asap lest the ship begin to list severely. He is probably hoping that he can move her now that she is lightened, then do the starboard cut when it will not fall so far away from shore. But then he is an enigma, unpredictable at best, unless there is money involved.
Peter, thank you for the latest photo. Heartbreaking as it is, I appreciate the efforts of all who are keeping us informed. The adage that "pictures speak louder than words" is indeed true.
