[QUOTE]Originally posted by CGT:
The Queen Mary is now on the US register, this is why the stars and stripes fly on her stern.
/QUOTE]
Apparently you're talking about the original QM. To my knowledge she is no longer formally registered as a merchant vessel under any flag. So naturally, under the circumstances, she can fly any flag her owners wish to fly.

quote:

Originally posted by Raoul Fiebig:
Ron,

a ship that is declared a constructive total loss as the result of an incident in United States waters qualifies for the U.S. flag if repaired at a U.S. shipyard.

Since the Norway was towed away from USA to Germany, then towed half way around the world to Malaysia, then towed to India, could it considered a total loss because of a boiler explosion in Miami? Hasn't it also been used for accomodiations and as a traing center in Bremerhaven since? So how could it be considered as being a total loss?

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Hasn't it also been used for accomodiations and as a traing center in Bremerhaven since?

Ron,

that is an urban legend.

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So how could it be considered as being a total loss?

The fact that it has been possible to tow her does in no way mean that she is cannot be considered a constructive total loss. Take the "Herald of Free Enterprise" which sank 20 years ago, was declared a constructive total loss and was then salvaged and towed from the Netherlands to Taiwan for scrapping. You can even tow a burned out hulk or a previously sunk ship around the globe.

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Apparently you're talking about the original QM. To my knowledge she is no longer formally registered as a merchant vessel under any flag. So naturally, under the circumstances, she can fly any flag her owners wish to fly.

Yes, Heron Bay, that is correct.

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The fact that it has been possible to tow her does in no way mean that she is cannot be considered a constructive total loss. Take the "Herald of Free Enterprise" which sank 20 years ago, was declared a constructive total loss and was then salvaged and towed from the Netherlands to Taiwan for scrapping. You can even tow a burned out hulk or a previously sunk ship around the globe.

Being declared a "constructive total loss" does not necessarily mean the end-of-days for a ship. It is not uncommon for a shipowner to surrender a vessel declared a CTL to the underwriters, collect the settlement, and then re-purchase the vessel for salvage value and actually repair it (assuming repairs are feasible). This has often occurred in cases where the shipowner could tap government assistance in financing repairs.

As to the NORWAY, were the costs of repair in the wake of the boiler explosion actually calculated to exceed the market value of the vessel? I believe this is the criteria to be met in declaring a CTL.

Two things I think are important to remember here:

1) According to NCL's internal documents obtained earlier by Reuben and posted on his site if memory serves, the decision not to refurbish Norway came down to the fact that Lloyd's would only pay for a repair of the steam plant, not conversion to a diesel plant.

2) If - and that's a big IF - the supreme court orders the ship dredged and towed out of Indian territorial waters, the ship is still owned by NCL/Star. Ownership was never transferred to any external corporate entity and the promissory note used for her sale was just that - promissory.

Now it may be true that NCL has already made a decision not to refurbish, and just because they said they'd refurbish SSUS doesn't mean they'll refurbish Norway. But here again I think you have to consider, what is the most economically feasable course of action for the company, to take in their disposition of a ship which has proven nearly-impossible to scrap. They only have three likely options here:

1) Decontaminate her in an OECD nation and then scrap her in India or Bangladesh, assuring they'd take a huge hit to their bottom line,

2) Sell her to another cruise operator, who could potentially repair and reflag her in the US and compete against NCL America (but without the "no onboard casino" restriction in NCLA's deal)...or

3) Refurbish a ship that's been profitable and popular throughout her career with NCL, and in return for their investment they'd have a 2000+ pax vessel with a brand new power plant and the most stable hull in their fleet, for a fraction of the cost of building a new ship, with a life expectancy of over 20 years according to NCL's own estimates.

To me, it's a no-brainer. If they team it up with a re-launch of SSUS and Indy, they could even make a media circus out of it and get really good marketing. Paint all three in classic black-hull livery and SSUS-style red/white/blue funnels...call it "NCL Classic" to contrast with their freestyle product...and win back all the clients they've alienated.

Not a bad alternative altogether, as far as I'm concerned.

Couldn't agree with you more Alex

If only the supreme court of India would do the right thing this may still happen. We all know NCL didn't keep her sailing because the insurance wouldn't pay for a new propulsion system, they only wanted to repair what was there, if they did she'd still be sailing as we speak. Stupid NCL/star

A year ago I would 100% agree with Alex's comments. In fact I still agree however you have to remember that while the ship was in Germany, except for the boiler room, the ship was in very good condition and being maintained by her regular crew. Most likely everything worked and was in good order.

One can probably say without any doubt that on Aug 15, 2006, if not earlier, when the ship was beached, she was abandoned and left on her own. No power, a/c, bilge checks and most of all no maintenance. Those of you that know ships know that maintenance is essential. Without it things go to hell quickly. Norway has been without any in atleast 9+ months if not longer.

Systems that might have been operational a year ago might be frozen up or broken now. Big ticket items like generators, thrusters, seacocks, lifeboat winches, etc. could be out of commission. Yes they can be fixed but this could easily add hundreds of thousands of dollars to a repair estimate.

What about mildew or water damages to the interior? In all of the Alang photos most of the exterior doors to the ship are noted open. Salt air alone can wreck havoc on fine metal surfaces and other items inside. How much damage has taken place already?

Norway was as close to bristol condition as possible while she was in Germany. If no one could afford her in good shape then how is anyone in the world going to afford to purchase and fix her now? The chances of her being refloated and returned to service are now, more than ever, a pipe dream.

Capt. Matt,

I agree with all you're saying.
I should also add that despite those that continue to think that the ship's hull is still as strong as ever...IT'S NOT...1960 was a LONG time ago.
Sitting in the sand supporting her own weight is NOT healthy for her.
Accumulating rain and sea water in her bilges is surely rusting her hull from the inside out.
It's time for those "strong hull" dreamers to get real !!!
Can she still be saved...yes.
The real question is will she be saved IN TIME.

All reports by the Gujarat Maritime Board have agreed that the vessel is in a good structural condition. It will take a considerable period before the hull is jepeaordised.

Has anyone heard from Navillus LLC/http://www.ss-france.com?

Odd that theres been no emails from them yet.

Oh and for the record, the ship's hull is strong, and can happily rest in Alang. But I agree that some action is really needed.

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Oh and for the record, the ship's hull is strong, and can happily rest in Alang

CGT,

The hull is still sound but not as strong as many of you believe.
I don't just spout this statement off the top of my head. This was told to me by a former long time ship builder here in Mass.
The boiler explosion did more damage to her than many of you realize.
While her present hull damage isn't fatal to her existance, with all else that's going on in Alang with her right now, (her hull full of rain and sea water, resting her full weight on her hull) the more she's compromised.
To believe otherwise is just foolish and unrealistic.

Weak hull, rust, mildew, old age, no upkeep.........ya, where do I sign up? Just let her die.

Like most of us here, I want to see the SS France/Norway off of the Alang beach also, but the statements by many that her hull is as fit as it was in 1960, is just pure fantasy. C'mon folks get real !!!
She would need hull work (due to the explosion) in order to sail the seas again as a cruise ship. It CAN be done however, it's NOT a lost cause, but let's get her off the beach soon though.

I too signed up for info from Navillus some weeks ago. Not a peep. I think it was just a ploy to shut us up, but prove me wrong please.

quote:

Originally posted by CGT:
All reports by the Gujarat Maritime Board have agreed that the vessel is in a good structural condition. It will take a considerable period before the hull is jepeaordised.

Has anyone heard from Navillus LLC/http://www.ss-france.com?

Odd that theres been no emails from them yet.

Oh and for the record, the ship's hull is strong, and can happily rest in Alang. But I agree that some action is really needed.

For the GMB to make any negative statements concerning the hull's condition would put off any potential buyers from the start. Remember....that is the best (only) possible option right now....getting a buyer. At least get a buyer to the site...and let them discover the true condition off the ship.

I cannot beleive that the GMB conducted a proper inspection which would require much more than a visual or walk-thru. I'm not really concerned with the ship resting on the bottom....but it's that "zig-zag" winching that would send red flags to my team of "marine engineers".

By the way......Navillus's "team of marine engineers" must have been there and back by now....according to his post many weeks ago.

Hopefully no news is good news?

I cannot see the Blue Lady being utilised as a cruise ship again. I can only see the ships future as a stationary exhibit. The same goes for the SS United States, she'd cost a fortune to run and refurb. The owners of the Rotterdam were wise and pragmatic enough to see this.

The boiler did damage the hull, but she is seaworthy. The ship was built for the North Atlantic, so she can endure the soft sands of Alang. I agree, she is not going to be as strong as she was in 1960, but I cannot see the logic of an argument on the state of the hull, as this does nothing for preservation of the vessel.

I wish we'd have some news from Navillus LLC. They told us to watch this space weeks ago, but we haven't even had a confirmation message from them.

I guess we'll all have to wait until the court covenes in May.

The GMB do not want the ship for sale! This is why any reports on the structural stability of the vessel is important!

CGT,

My statements regarding the hull condition of the SS France/Norway was NOT made to discourage any potential buyers as there is still plenty of life left in the old girl.
My statements were made in order to wake up those dreamers who think she's a strong as she was in 1960 and that an extended stay on the beach won't affect her...it will. It would affect any ship...new or old. The passage of time affects all man-made things, even a steel hull.
As for Navilus, I feel we've been duped yet again...sorry Raoul.
Too much time, too little info.

For those of you that think the Norway is beyond repair consider the story of the Europa. Built in 1930 she was almost destroyed by fire while being fitted out after he launch. Burned and sunk the ship was re-floated and rebuilt entering service months later than planned. She was neglected during much of the war and awarded to the French as reparations for the lost Normandie. In December 1946 during a storm snapped her moorings and crashed into wreck of the burned and capsized SS Paris. She sank for the second time, fortunately upright and in reasonably the shallow waters of Le Havre. After several months on the bottom she was raised and reconstruction soon began. As work progressed on reconstruction of her flooded interiors she again burned. Much of the recently refurbished interiors had to be demolished and rebuilt again. After all this she was completed in 1950 as the Liberte. She sailed as the flagship of the French line until she was replaced in 1962 by none other than our SS France/Norway/Blue Lady. The only thing that stands in the way of the SS Norway being removed from the beach in India is an economically feasible plan to reuse her in some form and a party willing to put the money on the table. I trust that this posting is on topic and will remain online.