Watson Island
As we have not heard otherwise I reckon you are bang on there.I am sure the ship will be going forward and not backwards.
Not much info coming from anywhere at the moment and another forum now appears to have turned into a jumble sale.Get your teak decking here.

I'd be the last one in the world to want to rain on anyone's parade; and despite what folks may consider as a defeatist attitude, I haven't given up hoping or praying for the last-second miracle. That said, I equally have to give voice to a reality check. If one doesn't stare reality straight in the face, then it's going to smack you all the harder when it hits. And these are a few of the hard cold "reality" facts:

1.) The ship is in a tragic state of neglect.
2.) For all the aforementioned "talk" about Dubai, the silence in these last critical moments has been positively deafening.
3.) We are NOT talking about people bearing the Good Housekeeping seal of approval--these ain't Boy Scouts, and they sure as hell aren't saints. All they care about is the dollar sign.
4.) There are already folks "hawking" the items they've already earmarked to make a huge profit from, and to them, in my honest opinion and despite nice rhetoric to the contrary, the best thing that could happen (monetary wise) from their perspective is for the beaching and breaking to begin. For these folks, the breaking will be an economic boon.
5.) Even the article from merinews.com site, as well written as it was, clearly indicates that India has snubbed its nose at BASEL and other agreements to which it is already a signatory many times before. I believe I recall reading where in THEIR silly loophole interpretation of hazardous contaminents and pollutants, it must be CARGO, and not part and parcel of that which is to be broken--reading that all but finalized the notion in MY mind that waiting for the SC of India to do anything at all which would prevent this would be as futile as hoping for a ticket scalper to all of a sudden grow a conscience and give away their tickets,--it just ain't gonna happen.
6.) While a "king" tide would be an opportunity to pull her back out to sea, the MUCH more likely scenario is that it would provide an opportunity to pull her all the closer to the beach.
7.) Dubai is an economic area burgeoning like none in the area. The $2 million needed to buy out the non-scrapping clause is less than peanuts to people who could buy and sell Bill Gates. I have always thought this notion of them bickering over that small a sum as preventing the closure of a sale, had they truly any intention of making one, to be specious at best.
8.) There is great division, even among Norway afficionados over the feeding frenzy going on to get souvenirs and memorabillia. There are more than a few wringing their hands in anticipation of getting those hands on anything they can from the ship, while others find the very though revolting. This kind of division drives wedges, and that not only hurts what has been a valiant cause and effort--it plays right into the hands of the very people we once expressed such disdain for. I tend to look at things metaphorically, so forgive me if the analogy offends, as it isn't intended to; but I, for one, do NOT want something stripped off the dying/rotting carcass of one I so loved. The very thought gives me shivers, and to see/hear folks already clamboring to line up for anything and everything tells me that they, too, have given up the erstwhile noble cause and taken up that of one on a scavenger hunt.

As for me, I have a few mementos of the Grand Dame, and I have my pictures, and I have my memories, and THAT is how I want to remember her. I, for one, do NOT wish to see pictures of her in her death throes, nor do I want to line the pockets of those set to profit by what I consider an obscene handling of the entire affair. I wish to append that statement by conceding it is only MY opinion, and I actually DO understand that feeings on this emotional issue run across a broad spectrum of sentiment, and therefore harbor no ill-will to those whose opinions and sentiments run in a different course.

Some in here have expressed that this is better than her "rotting" away at the bottom of the sea. This is a perfect example of differing perspectives. When one is given a burial at sea, as countless thousands have been so given since time immemorial, it is not the view of them "rotting away" in the sea, or innumerable other grotesque visions that could be concocted that comes to mind; but rather that this soul has been relegated to that which gave it life--the Sea! And yes, I for one, would have MUCH preferred that for our Ship, than the true indignities she faces on a dirty beach.

When I picture/see my beautiful Blue Lady, the S/S Norway, it will be at her picturesque best, vibrant, alive, and in tact. For those who have no compunctions about seeing her in another manner, or retrieving whatever they can from whatever source--that is your right and certainly if you can live with that, who am I to judge? It is obvious we simply do not see it the same way.

I know this comes off, as stated earlier, sounding "defeatist"... but I prefer to call it "realist". This does NOT mean to suggest that I wouldn't be ecstatic if there were a different outcome, nor does it imply that I have in any way ceased my efforts through e-mails, calls, and even snail-mails till the very last breath of life leaves her body, for they most certainly will not. I just felt that perhaps I needed to do a little cathartic venting of my own in dealing with a most unpleasant reality. I pray God, I am proven wrong.

A Ship like this is a thing of beauty, and while it may be said that inanimate objects have no soul, it cannot be denied that they affect the souls of all who have come in contact with her. Her ultimate fate, whatever it be, will not alter in the least her glorious history, or the love borne for her in the hearts of those who have come to know her.

And if anything in this world is more bereft of a "soul" than a corporate entity that would do this to such a masterpiece, I have as yet to know of it.

A2K

Audrey2Katrina : let me take a minute to reply to some of your concerns ;
1 ) Considering the ship has had no maintenance in over 3 years, you can't expect to see a spit and polished ship, but consider her appearence to be cosmetic, something easily corrected with some paint and a good cleaning.
2) Being a union man, I know that when negotions get close to the wire, there is always a news blackout, to avoid tipping your hand to the other party, hence the silence.
3&4)Yes, everyone in the world is out to make a buck, that's a fact of life.
5) The case before the Supreme Court of India doesn't consider the violation of the Basel Agreement to be "small potato's", and severe penalities are already mentioned numerious times.
6) The ship is still classified as "at anchor", and beaching is forbidden by the courts, as well as any scraping.
7) While it is strange for "Project Dubai" to be arguing over 2 millon dollars, there is probably much more to it than the money, but they have completed a through inspection of the ship, and their report is now in the hands of the courts and lawyers. (info from Rubens site)
8) you'll always have people that want souveniers, just look at how they cart off pieces of airplane wrecks. Sometimes people are very strange. By the way, anyone interested in some "Norway Diamonds", even I have a few of those. They were the result of a collision between the Norway and a New York pier during her farewell voyage in 2001. Worst damage was a broken pain of glass next to the outdoor cafe. They should be worth a small fortune now.

Thanks for the encouraging words, Winco7. My little list was, as cited, a cathartic event for me, each item in and of itself, standing alone, doesn't amount to something that couldn't easily be explained away; but my sentiments were that in the total context of ALL those circumstances, well, the outlook was anything but favorable--again, though, I will be the first to thank everyone aboard and the Heavens above if she should be denied entry on the beach and somehow saved.

My concern with the Indian SC is that all their previous verbiage is just that... pretty words to make them look like they're taking a "tough" approach--a veneer, all the while as they piddle around, full in the knowledge that with the next king tide it will be a fait accompli, complete with expressions of their outrage, and a lot of foot stomping and fines (for show and little more), IF that much. Remember the article did cite that THEIR interpretation of what was hazmat did NOT seem to incude all the asbestos and PCB's that were an actual part of the structure, but rather only if it were "cargo". I dunno, it just seems to have more holes in it than a wheel of Swiss cheese. I trust them no farther than I could toss the Great Pyramid of Giza.

All that said, I certainly share your hopes, and dearly pray that within a few days I'll be eating a fine dish of crow. Nothing would give me greater pleasure. Well, a certain company going belly-up might give me greater; but we won't go there.

A2K

quote:

Originally posted by badrideboy:
all this bullshit sucks im gonna go to captainsvoyage.com where people are interested in one thing ... the norway and not race or disrespect or fighting

VERY well said BRB...!!!

In response to Audrey2katrina, perhaps I'm wrong, but I do believe the ban exists on toxic parts of the ship IF IT WAS BROUGHT THERE FOR DISPOSAL.
I'm no expert on these things, but from what I've read toxic materials that are part of the ship are only exempt, if the ship is arriving or departing for repairs or further use. As soon as the ship is intended for disposal or breaking, then the parts of the ship that are toxic are the same as toxic cargo as far as the treaty and ban are concerned (why do you think Star kept telling Germany and others she was being towed for "repairs") ?

10-4 forfour!!!!!!!!!! HELLO??? I told you that the Norway is a lost cause she is b -otched and shall never see the shipping lanes again! The United States is the liner more worthy than a FRENCH BUILT SHIP that was altered from her original appearance, and now resembles a b- otched low rent condominium project!!!!!!!!!!

PlanetPhips B GONE!!!!!!!!

I have to repeat one of my earlier posts. Anything can be "restored" if enough money or labor by skiled hands are employed.
Restoring the Norway can be done. If anyone including Dubai purchased this ship today, they would have an original work of art, even if parts of her are "touched up" or restored...she is still the real deal. A "replica" is a cheap knock-off. Not worth anything.
There is a reason for my above sentance.
This ship can and must be saved !

I know there are supporters (lovers) of this ship that are now "throwing in the towel". I know things look bad. Don't give up hope yet !

I have to direct this to Jan Olav, simply because you are the only past officer of this ship that is posting about her and has a website. I know her current condition is shocking and painful for you to see. I ask only this....would you please forget about your frame of reference. She is not taking on passengers tomorrow and it is not your butt if she is not "presentable". The condition of her lifeboats mean nothing. If her cabin carpets are covered in dirt and mold....again that means nothing. If her chairs (that have been recovered six times already) are torn and upside down....again it doesn't matter. Please take it from someone that has worked many drydocks on several ships, with the right money and attention to detail she could be "brought back" to wonderful condition in a few months.
In my mind, as long as the hull and superstructure are intact, any restoration would still be the France/Norway. Yes, like many others I am sad that some of the artwork and artifacts are gone, but that isn't the heart or vibe of this ship. Please, please quit saying that she is already gone, she is not and will not be untill her props are out of water and her superstructure is being cut up and thrown on shore. Untill that happens I will not give up. That is really when she is "gone".....not now.

lets see, up on beach, being scavenged like the derilect she now is, when will reality hit those of you who are not so blinded by the greatness of a once great ship????????

quote:

Originally posted by 987654321:
lets see, up on beach, being scavenged like the derilect she now is, when will reality hit those of you who are not so blinded by the greatness of a once great ship????????

I would not glorify Big U over Norway and yet call for realism i.e. quitting in the face of adversity. Take it from a proud American Soldier, that's a bit like the kind of attitude I'd expect from a fr....fr.....freaky Malaysian casino empire king.....except that he didn't quit....cuz he's a king and all, y'know...ok bad example.

All jokes aside, if Star gets its way with Norway then what 100% asbestos-free ship do you think is lined up next for Alang? You know, just to spite us, they'd probably make it into a big media circus just to make sure to publicize internationally than when they scraps old ships in a non-OECD country, the ship gets 100% decontamination-certified in the USA before it goes to India.

And right to plot V-22 she'll go, my friend. Perhaps I'm wrong, but eminent domain don't work on ships, just land. And Star's so pissed at our campaign that I really wouldn't put it past them to scap United States in India and make a media event of "how much the company has learned about scrapping undecontaminated old vessels over 40 years of age"....can see it now.

Corporate Gold...the appearance of improvement is the marketing tool of the cruise lines, from interiors to balconies and cuisine to sewage treatment plants. The parties that now help our cause, the environmental companies, will change camps and we'll have lost our teeth, and there's not a judge on the land that would stop it and ignore private property used in a lawful manner, as the US did not ratify Basel - and even if they did, the Big U is decontaminated already so they wouldn't be breaking it.

Hello all, hello waterone1,

I choose not to comment any further before after the King Tide.

Hoping for the best.

Yours truly,

And while I'm on the subject of French-built strength...I think one of the greatest Army leaders of all time was the Marquis de La Fayette. Not only was he instrumental in helping to secure American independence, Washington was so close to him that he became his son'd Godfather. Must have done something right. Perhaps he proved himself to be a good friend through thick and thin - the kind that stops you from getting into your car when you've just stumbled drunk out of a bar after someone smashed a bottle over your head, y'know?

Like, you might hate them at the time for telling you not to do it...you might maybe even call them all a bunch of pu - well you get me. Point is, 5 or 10 years later you might look back and say something like "you're a good friend because you warned me this would happened and I was foolish to go against your advice" or some sappy $hit like that.

But then you'd kick back the rest of you drinks and grow some...

Alex 79818 touche!!

Jon Olav, OK, I'll say it. Plan "B" for Dubai is a total joke. A "replica" of the France/Norway will have no draw and will accomplish nothing, regardless of how many "parts" of the real ship they purchase.
There, my "cards are on the table".....why are you being so tight lipped ?

Waterone1,
Your right that NO replica will ever replace the essence of the original ship.

It reminds me of the proposed Titanic replica the various groups wanted to do a few years ago. All of those projects fell by the way side.

However, what would have worked is the construction of a 4th Olympic Class oceanliner that was based on the original First Class design of the RMS Britainic. If the ship hadn't sunk near the Agean Sea during WWI, the ship was to have combined the best of the Titainic and Olympic features.

Since the Britanic never saw service as a passenger liner, a developer could build that ship, and eliminate the 2nd and 3rd class options for a 1st class decour that could range from the 15th Century to the 19th Century that combines the best of the Great European Empires.

And the ship could be named the RMS Gigantic, the HMHS Britanic original name before the sinking of the Titanic. I believe it would do very well because it would not be an imitation of the RMS Titanic. It would be a floating museum/hotel ship that would have its own personality.

Don't you agree?

Watertone
Sorry to be pessimistic, but could Jan be tight lipped because the scrappers intention for the high tide are already known?

Let's hope that Dubai and the Scrappers come to a price agreement on the Norway before then.

Lets look at the outcome. IF (again if) Jan olav knew she would be saved, he MIGHT have some reason to be quiet. IF (again IF) he knew she was gone forever, the only reason he would be quiet is that he was hoping to get something from the ship. The only reason to be quiet about what the scrappers are doing is if you are "in bed" with them ???