Well..

There's and excellent model of the SS Norway/SS France on e-bay. Not CHEAP (starting bid is $1300) But it's the best model by far I've seen, made of wood and lighted!


http://cgi.ebay.com/SS-France-SS-Norway-ship-model_W0QQ...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Tomas Rosales... aka Minotaur on the Mauretania

Ya, I looked at the pix. Wouldn't get too excited though. As stated above she's been without maintenance for at least a year and how well was she maintained since the explosion? I remember when I sailed on the Carnivale there was always parts of the ship being touched up with paint, carpets being cleaned and woodwork being sanded and shellacked. They just had to keep up with the daily wear and tear.

Also, please note that Andrews says he has signed contracts for but as of yet does not have pieces from the ship. These contracts may be null and void if the breakers sell or loose the ship.

As per the $100 CD, I wouldn't pay a dime. If he truely paid $50,000 to travel and get the pix, then he really got screwed. Time to look for a new travel agent I would say! I don't know why anyone would want a bunch of "morbid" pix to shadow the memories of the great times aboard her.

The lack of info about Dubai....I wouldn't worry about this either. Well maybe a bit. Any negotiation of this type is usually going to be kept behind closed doors. The same type of thing was listed on Lloyds about MSC possibly buying out NCL. All we knew is that MSC wants to purchase. Just relax (easy to say) and hope for the best.

Keep the faith.

Hi Tomas,
Check out this site for the SS France/Norway model. This company produces the best models of oceanliners around:

www.maritimereplicas.com

Two comments:

1.) I agree with Watson Island completely. As much as I'd have regretted her loss, I'd have MUCH rather seen this majestic ship given a burial at sea, than torn to shreds, bit by bit at a chop shop.

2. I agree with Remarc on the "morbid" perspective. While I begrudge nobody their prerogative as an entrepreneur, I do sort of cringe at what appears to me like a vision of vultures circling over a dying carcass, just waiting to pick the bones clean--just the way I see it, to each his/her own. And with regard to the CD and/or any memorabilia scavenged from her, while I would probably love to have a memento of the ship I know that if a CD is $100. anything else would be WAY out of my league with regard to price. Besides that, sad as it is, were I to have a dear relative, thousands of miles away and dying from a slow disease eating away at her, the LAST thing I would want is a bunch of pictures of her dying days. Again, to each his/her own, but I'd much prefer to remember this beautiful ship resplendant in all her grandeur, the Grand Dame... not, well, what they're trying to make of her. If Dr. Ragamuffin is making a genuine offer, as opposed to a tongue-in-cheek comment, I might be interested in some of those pics. I have a few hundred of my own; but a lot of them (especially indoors) are not the best quality as it was in the early days of digital.

*sigh*

Well, I've said my piece on this rather depressing news--not that it was altogether unexpected. Needless to say it also confirms me in my disdain for Star/NCL... never again! Our groups will be checking other lines from here on out as I lay practically the entire blame for this series of sad events right at their doorstep--MY opinion.

A2K

A2K,
I agree with you on the way Star/NCL handled the SS Norway. It's pretty much ripping your own heart out. You what happens from there.

The same thing happened to P&O when they sold the SS Canberra to the scrappers. They ended up folding into Carnival Corp.

Now Star is selling NCL to another competitor. To me, Star Cruises never had a clue about maritime history. Or they wouldn't have sold the SS Norway to the scrappers, and trying to prevent Dubai from getting the ship. All the negativity has resulted in losses for the company for the past 6 months. The curse of the SS Norway.

quote:

The lack of info about Dubai....I wouldn't worry about this either. Well maybe a bit. Any negotiation of this type is usually going to be kept behind closed doors.Just relax (easy to say) and hope for the best.

Keep the faith.

As far as the negos are conducted... being a born optimistic, this is exactly what I think at the moment!

Still, I have some questions abt Project Dubaï... remember Bizet's opera "l'Arlesienne"? Everybody's talking abt her, but nobody actually sees her!

In my opinion, anyone who "puts down" a class of people usually has no class of his own. So the photographer thinks that the people on this website have no class, so that is why he didn't post his pictures here ??
In your mind you may think that a stack of upside down chairs has some value, or the suprising fact that a ship without maint. has some rust streaks......OK ???? But to put down all of us on this site because we question $100.00 for looking at your pictures......yep that shows how much class you have.

Not speaking about class, but if you read my coment i wrote" some of you negative folks out there"
I have been in Bangladesh for 14 days earlier this year, once in Singapoore, 3 times in India and together i have spent 2 moonths abroad to gain this, stupid for some people but important for me.

I have respect for most of the opinons too the chatters but sometimes it seems like its all off track.
Too avoid the angry coments from some of the chatters ill stay off this forum in the future and anybody interested in updated news in the future are welcom to joins captainsvoyage were i still will display news when i have them.
Best regards Lanterne
Real name: Andrew Shaw

I'm not here to defend andrews as I sure he can take care of himself, but I have also noticed some negative comments by some here in the past, that were more ego driven and not on topic.
Some here doubted the authenticity of pictures of the SS France/Norway beached, I believe Peter Knego posted them. The result was these doubters pissed him off and we lost any chance to get more photos on the SS France/Norway.
Let's please try to remember why we're here and check our egos at the door.

Excellent point, Sky KIng.

Regarding SS France/SS Norway's interior, I recall hearing that NCL was going to incorporate some of her memorabilia into one or more of its new ships... does anyone else recall same, or is this wishful thinking on my part?

My favorite aspect of cruising on Celebrity Infinity earlier this year was dining alongside those gorgeous glass panels from SS United States. There was also some original furniture in the restaurant's entry. I was drawn to this area even during the day, when there were no diners, and often read or wrote while sitting in one of these chairs. The maitre d' did not seem to mind one bit,and even welcomed me by name when I stopped by. There was just something special about being at sea while surrounded by memorabilia from a classic liner.

In other words, if we can't save our Lady intact, perhaps we should turn our efforts toward making sure that some of the artwork and decor many of us remember so fondly are treated well... and returned to shipboard where so many can enjoy them.

I would certainly be interseted in looking at Lanternes photographs but only if the ship is saved and her present condition is therefore only temporary, but not as a lasting and final impression of the ship.

For my part I don't think what has been referred to as "negativity" here was so much negativity as it was gut-wrenching denial. It truly is a heartache to watch someone, or something, you truly love go through this scenario. Some take it better than others. You just find yourself betimes not wanting to believe what your heart and soul are telling you is so.

I agree with the spirit of Sky King's message (By the way, I remember Sky King too... never missed it!--ok so that dates me as well), but would add a codicil of my own as I think all of us are capable of "taking care" of themselves. I think many in here view the France/Norway as "our" ship... and resent the insertion of anyone who seems to be taking a rather proprietary view of things on or about her. I'm not justifying the mentality, only trying to give one possible perspective of their viewpoint. I distinctly recall, when Iwas but a child, my Aunt Edna, as she lay in her last throes of life, hearing some family members discussing her so fondly, and clinging to a hope for recovery that others knew simply wasn't going to happen. I recall still others already dividing up her material possessions, and the hostility that such talk immediately precipitated. It wasn't pretty--but it does happen. Now before someone takes this out of context and attempts to make it appear I am elevating the status of a structure to the same import as that of a human life, please understand this is strictly for purposes of an analogy inasmuch as many of the same processes are at work. I have nothing but the greatest respect for all in here who have voiced their affection for this great ship; but that detracts nothing from the various feelings of each and every individual dealing with events in their own way. Yes, we should take the "high road," but there will be the occasional showing of that frayed nerve, that sore spot, which someone has touched, perhaps unintentionally, in passing a comment another views as rather callous.

Of all the comments made by the estimable Mr. Shaw, I find these two the most starkly revealing:

quote:

I have been working with this for 6-7 moonths and have achived the trust from the owners and breakers anh was then able to see the ship which was amazing.
I know everything but can not say much because i am going back many times moore this year and with the trust the owners have given me then!!!!!!

Perhaps I, like so many, have wandered off into my own bit of sheer speculation; but it suggests to me that the speaker is indeed the holder of some rather significant "inside" information; and for our cause, that "scoop" isn't good. For him, well, it betokens a potential lucrative windfall--one which some will resent, others will be impassive, still others ready to deal with. We are a diverse group. The second quote I find quite telling, and perhaps one which sends flags up for those who read "between the lines" is this one:

quote:

Anyone want too be the owner of some genuine items from the SSFrance and the SS Norway (interior) can contact me

To anyone reading that, it is clearly little more than a business proposition, and which, in our free society is quite his prerogative. To me it further reinforces my belief that the ship's breaking is all but a fait-accompli and refers back to the "I know all..." comment. The "Dubai" project, if it ever truly existed, is pretty much as gone as our beloved liner. It also suggests, and I may be way off base here, but it IS my hypothesis, that a lot of that $50,000 mentioned was quite possibly in the expenses incurred NOT in travel, but in having "in hand" contracts to receive huge inventory taken from the ship before breaking... again, only applying logic here, not passing any judgment. Now if a model for sale on e-bay will fetch over $1,000. just think what tons of teak decking, and heaven only knows how many other artifacts from this beloved ship will..."fetch"? I could be wrong, but it is here where I think the majority of Mr. Shaw's "investment" lay. He has posted his e-mail in good faith, and for doing so I will try not to be one lumped into the 'negativity' column; but will indeed express my opinions on why it exists.

To Andrew, this is a business venture, and like it or not, his is in MY view, similar to that of our occasional commenter known as Ron Clark--that of a businessman, not that of a historian or preservationalist with the strong sentimental attachments so many of us have shown. He saw an opportunity to scoop up many items that could potentially turn a nice profit, took the risk, made the trip, and closed a deal. Now that may sound extremely offensive to many in here who view this ship as part of us, and therein lay the rub: the negativity. There WILL be a sense of resentment that anyone use the passing of our beloved vessel for personal gain, and while we're being asked to consider the rights and feelings of Mr. Shaw, which we should, I respectfully would equally request the feelings of those who are only now dealing with all their hopes of saving this ship collapsing like a house of cards, along with all tenaciously held visions, be given equal consideration. To them this is NOT a cold-business equation--it's the passing of a much beloved member of our family--and wheeling and dealing over her possessions while she lay on her deathbed is just a tad more than some care to deal with. Just as I have made a personal decision NEVER to do business with Star/NCL again because of this travesty, it is equally the right of the various readers to decide whether or not they wish to do business with those who have come after-the-fact and benefit through capitalistic enterprise at the results. I neither condone, nor condemn the actions of anyone--well, except for those I've already expressed. Nobody (with a heart at all) enjoys the prospect of divying up the possessions of a loved one as they lay perishing, but it is a sad fact of life, and frankly I'm surprised it took this long for the "capitalists" to surface--but make no bones about it, it was bound to happen.

Understanding is a two way street: Yes, respect the rights of the entrepreneur to pursue their own vision of the marketplace; equally, respect the feelings of those who view this as something a bit macabre and somewhat distasteful while they watch a cherished symbol of heart and memory, which they so earnestly wanted to continue, come to an agonizing end.

Sorry for the long-winded soap-box; but that's my take on recent discussion trends.

A2K

My only point I was trying to make was that why would anyone want to pay $100 for photographs of a ship in disrepair and decay, assuming (and I guess that's the error on my part) that they've sailed on her and have photos of their own. Imagine being in a bookstore, and you've got two coffee-table books of, like, the Biltmore or something. One is of her with well-done, well-lit, professionally shot photographs, and the other is of amateurly-shot, quickly-snapped photographs of the Biltmore after a flood or a tornado or something. Which one are you going to buy? Market forces will give you/me our answer, I guess. Of course, Mr. Shaw is more than entitled to try and hawk his wares here or anywhere else he can, I'm sure. I wasn't even making a comment about HIM or HIS venture -- heck, you don't see ME going all the way across the world to try and take some photographs. All I was saying is that I would imagine there would be relatively few individuals that would choose his option, IMHO.

And just to clarify -- I spoke rather quickly before -- I'm NOT a professional photographer, and in thinking about it later, I imagine anyone who cares already has their own photographs, but if anyone wants to have any, I'll look and see if there's any worth having. Interestingly enough, though, on Jan-Olav's site there are listed some AMAZINGLY well done photographs from an apparent professional in Germany, that probably could be had for the asking (for a price, I'm sure).

quote:

Originally posted by andrews:
The cd with 6-700 pictures from the last 3 weeks of Norway will be avaible for sale for $100 so i can get back some og my large expenses.
Anyone want too be the owner of some genuine items from the SSFrance and the SS Norway (interior) can contact me with their full identity and i can maybe help with this.

From what I read (between the lines) is Andrew wishes to recoup the $50,000 expense he incured to take the infamous pix. My question is why would he be concerned IF he feels he will be receiving and selling items obviouslly at obscene prices?

I feel (not an accusation) that this possibly may be a scare tactic just like some other extremely negative posts I've read, as well as the e-mails I had received from the breakers. These pix, the negative posts, strange e-mails, etc appear to me, simply as a form of propaganda, telling us we have lost the battle and we should just give up. DON'T!!! Keep pushing.

Still sending those e-mails out?

Hello everyone,
Has anyone ever received a reply from Gopal Krishna, the Indian lawyer who was responsible for perventing the breakup of the SS Norway. Reuben advised us that if we wanted to help him in his cause to ban the SS Norway, that we should make a contribution. However, when I emailed him on how I could help out, he never replied back to me.

Does this means that he has more than enough funds to carry out his case to the Indian Supreme Court?

Also, I found it strange that Dubai hasn't responded to Reuben regarding the outcome of the negotiation. For the moment, I'm assuming that the people involved in the talks to get the Norway are under gag order to not discuss the matter to anyone until the final contracts are signed.

So, if Dubai gets the ship, we'll hear from them sometime this week as the opportunity to pull her out to deep waters will occur at that time. I'm still keeping the faith until then.

I fully understand, Doctor Ragamuffin; and yes, I do have a few hundred pics of my own from our voyages on the Norway. It was but a feeble attempt to see if there might be more. The pic I have posted on p. 109 of this thread (showing the fore view with the tenders resting comfortably in place) is one *I* took from, or near as I could get to the bridge, on my cruise with our seniors as we left Miami, May, 2001. I am no professional by any stretch of the words; but I do like that particular picture, I only wish I'd known a little more about how to use Imageshack (hope that's allowed here, if not, just delete with my apologies), as I'd have made it a bit larger with higher res. I guess that with the permission of the moderator/admin some of us might like to post a few of the general pics we have of our favorite liner in her "glory" days. As for mine, any and all are more than welcome to them, and you have my writing here as proof--completely gratis. Yes, we all do, I'm sure, have many pictures of our own wonderful cruises on this vanishing masterpiece; but I've always got room for more. How I loved this ship, and that cruise--it will remain with me till I, too, am summoned off to the "breakers". (hopefully a long way off yet! ) In the meantime, Raoul, perhaps you could tell me/us if it would be all right for some of us to post a few of our favorite shots of the Norway in small links on this thread, to share for all who want a yet another lasting memory of our beauiful liner. I certainly don't want to violate any forum rules and regs. I offer mine to any who care to click on them and copy them. A thing of beauty is a thing to share with all so that others may know and enjoy, even if only by pictures, that which is all too sadly passing. Please let me know if this is acceptable.Here is another of my favorite pics. (If I get this thing right..not to adroit at using Imageshack but we'll see!)



I'm sure many have such pics to remember her by; but all are welcome to any shots I post.

A2K

Sorry for any who may have been checking while I was trying to get it right, I didn't want to use up too much bandwidth and was having quite a time of it. I think I got it right this time and couldn't go back to edit in this other pic; but here it is for whatever it's worth.



In whatever way we keep her: Long Live the Norway!

A2K

When i read theses posts,

I believe that sometimes we use a lot of energy for nothing... Just to say "Ron or Peter are bad persons, because they didn't think like us"
I'm a little disgusted, because everybody can have her opinion ( i think that we are on a "forum", and for me, "forum" means diversity of opinions.)
I think that they possibly can have a part of truth in their reflexions, even if i not agree with them all the time.
But theses reflexions are helping us to see the two sides of the thing, and sometimes, we are only seeing one side.
For me, this forum is a help for everybody want to save our beloved ship, and if someone haven't this idea, so i don't care; i prefer send a message to Reuben or to the president of India, but i think that we have no more time to lose if we want to see the "SS Norway" saved.
To claim "who is bad, who is good" don't permit us to progress.
We've got one aim : Save the Blue Lady.
and the rest don't care.

Regards,

Olivier.

(Sorry for my poor english, it's very hard to explain questions of feelings when you've a poor vocabulary)

quote:

Originally posted by Audrey2Katrina:
Sorry for any who may have been checking while I was trying to get it right, I didn't want to use up too much bandwidth and was having quite a time of it. I think I got it right this time and couldn't go back to edit in this other pic; but here it is for whatever it's worth.

In whatever way we keep her: Long Live the Norway!

A2K

Thanks for sharing the great pictures!! I think they reflect how most of us contributing to this site would like to remember the ship - in great shape and buzzing with activity of crew and passengers

With all due respect, Olivier, I may have missed something in the 121 odd pages of this forum, and while passions may have risen a little in the discussions, I don't recall anyone calling Ron or Peter a "bad person", perhaps you can enlighten me on that. I will agree inasmuch as in the heat of the moment some have expressed their disdain in less than respectful terms; but calling them "bad people"... I dunno, maybe I missed it. That all are entitled their views and opinions has been repeated in this thread innumerable times. That kind of pontificating is like beating a dead horse.

I agree entirely with your assessment that the overwhelming majority here would love nothing better than to see a last-minute stay of execution, a miracle..and to see our beloved ship saved. I certainly am in that number and have done what I could within my meager means. It's just that some have reached the point of despair in light of recent circumstances, while others hang tenaciously on to the hope of that miracle--remember--diversity? For any and all still fighting the good fight, I applaud your efforts and were there more I could do, I'd do it. That said there are the naysayers who appear to revel in gloating or taunting others about events, I don't think I need to name anyone as their posts speak for themselves. If anything, THESE posts only detract from this forum, and it is best they be ignored as if they aren't even there, for to respond gives them credibility, recognition, and exactly what they want--diversionary attention.

As to our mutual aim, Godspeed. Vive Le France, and Long Live the Norway--in whatever capacity that remains possible... just my opinion for whatever it's worth.

A2K